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Edited by Good7tuff:
3/29/2021 12:16:43 PM
109
Feedbback: Crucible experience as a casual newbie
Okay, as this is a feedback forum, I thought I’d share my thoughts and (hopefully) constructive criticism. So don’t take it as a whiny or negative post.
First of all, I was introduced to Destiny in January 2021, and I immediately fell in love with the game - the depth of lore, the visuals, music etc, everything.
One thing, however, that I mostly avoid is Crucible. I’m a casual player, not really into PvP, and not really good at it, I acknowledge that. And I’m sure it has been all said a million times, but as in recent TWABs Bungie mentioned they want to encourage more new players to participate in the Trials of Osiris and Crucible, I can tell you exactly why most new (and especially casual) players would rather avoid it like a plague (based on my own and my friends’ experience, as well as numerous posts on reddit and the web).
Being bad at PvP at first is normal, one could improve over time, by being bad at first and trying again and again until they become better. But that implies some kind of progression, gradual improvement. I’m willing to learn and improve, but with Crucible at the moment you’re being thrown into a bowl of chaos, where most players seem to be hardcore PvP players, and you’re there just hopelessly trying to survive.
Funny thing is, the most usual answer to this is that you should “get gud”, as it’s your own fault you’re bad. And while I partially agree, the game doesn’t offer any way for a newbie to learn, except while being steamrolled by veteran players with expert handling skills of Felwinter Lies, The Last Words and such. Hardly a fun experience. Yet even a tough competition is supposed to be somewhat fun, exciting, no?
I’ve also heard that it used to be SBMM and they changed it to CBMM, due to hardcore players protesting the SBMM, which in all honesty:
- as a system is completely dumb (you wouldn’t place kindergarteners to play football agains professional footballers and expect them to just learn and enjoy the game, while pros kick the shit out of them).
- and as “veteran players”, it’s pathetic because obviously the only reason they want CBMM is because it gives them ability to farm weaker players for better K/D ratio - playing against similarly skilled players is, after all, more difficult. [b]EDIT:[/b] I've been informed that that's not the only reason, connection was also an issue etc., so I get it.
And that’s the culprit of the problem - people wonder why casual players are not participating in Crucible - well, why would they? It’s barely enjoyable in these circumstances. Most who try it out, get absolutely destroyed again and again, so they end up finishing the necessary steps for whatever quests they have (or abandon them) and get back to PvE, as it’s far more rewarding and much more balanced. Or imagine dropping the player into a dungeon level the very first thing after they’ve created the character. Pretty much the same experience.
Now I honestly don’t know how Bungie could address it, if they would. I remember back in high school I was playing some similarly fast-paced shooter games, which had skill/level based lobbies - there were both “free-for-all” and level restricted ones - and that worked perfectly, as when you just start out you were playing with total newbies, and as you progressed you would only be allowed to lobbies that were more or less similar level with your skill. And that was fun! It was balanced and it made sense. Sure, some games still were tough, especially in higher level lobbies, but not even close to the hopelessness of some of the current Crucible matches. But I doubt they’ll completely change the system just to accommodate new players.
And also, I’m sure there are many solely PvP-focused players who are completely fine with the way things are now. And as I’m usually playing PvE I might not even be the player group to listen to when it comes to PvP, but I’m just saying that me, a PvE player, would gladly participate more in PvP, if it had some kind of fair matchmaking system that would make the game enjoyable for everybody, not just the high-skill players. Newbies vs newbies, skilled vs skilled - it’s not rocket science.
My ¢0.02. Thanks for reading.
P.S. By the way - I heard they made some adjustments to Iron Banner matchmaking this week, and I have to say it felt much better than normal crucible matches, much more balanced. So whatever they did there - I think is a good direction.
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155 RepliesEdited by kellygreen45: 3/29/2021 11:25:56 AMThe TLDR of my post? [i][b]You're absolutely right and for the right reasons. [/b] [/i] Which is why Trials self-destructs whenever it is introduced to the game, and why Bungie basically is at the point where they have to BRIBE us with tons of loot to play PVP. (I played IB for the first time in about a year, and that event is EMBARASSINGLY generous wtih loot compared to the rest of the game. [i]Seriously, Bungie[/i].....?) The problem is a simple one. You have two IRRECONCIABLE views on what constitutes "fun" that are warring with one another over control of the PVP side of the game. You've given voice to---and a good description of---those who see fun in actual competition. IOW, getting to play against people of similar skill level....but for higher stakes as one climbs the latter of skill. In this setting, playing people of higher skill is NOT a "punishment"....its the REWARD for "getting good". (As you said, you don't turn pros loose on kindergarteners...and then call that "competitive") The OTHER faction is what I just call "pub stomp culture". Which we have Call of Duty and early Halo to thank for that. A generation ago, internet infrastructure was so poor, and connection speeds so slow, that CBMM was a necessary evil to get these games to work properly. So feeding weaker players to stronger players was an unavoidable evil...and since there were few options....people tolerated it. But the result is that you now have a generation of shooter gamers who define "fun" not in terms of getting to play against people of their own skill level for bragging rights. But instead in terms of their ability to DOMINATE weaker players. In short, they like to "win"...but they don't like to compete...and they feel that the game owes them success regardless of what effort level they feel like putting out on a given day. (In sports terms that attitude is called "Throwing your hat on the field (baseball) or "Mailing it in (golf)." These players expect success whenever they show up, but only want to put out effort and compete (sweat) on THEIR terms and when THEY feel like it. d Many here actually view having to play people of their own skill level to be a "punishment".....while they hypocritically call for CBMM....and consign the vast majority of players to WORSE conditions than the ones they deem "unfair" and "unreasonable" for themselves. Unfortunately, I don't think you can resolve this conflict within one game, in the current climate. The Devs just need to decided WHICH faction they wish to cater to....and have the stones to tell the other to either suck-it-up and deal with it....or go play a different game. As you noted, the RPG gamer who makes up the backbone of the Destiny PVE player base simply isn't going to tolerate this predatory, "get good" environment where they get served up for the enjoyment of stronger players, with no regard and NO RESPECT for the experience they are having playing the game. They won't tolerate it....and they dont' have to. There are more enjoyable parts of this game.....and a CRAP TON of more enjoyable games out there (Outriders....) So ever since Bungie has gone to CBMM, this game has struggled to get PVP engagement. This is an IRON Banner week...and traditionally that meant that players who were typically PVE players would flood the Crucible in search of themed loot and to "catch up" progression-wise if you were a solo player. But the IB experience now is so MISERABLE with the combination of CBMM and the "lock out" mechanic, that probably 60-70 percent of matches are mercied. Many before you even play long enough to get your super for the first time. Result? IB participation is WAY down. It an effective loot pinata, but its an absolute shit-show of a pvp game mode. An absolute **garbage** experience for anyone looking to enjoy competitive play....and I'm not some kid who uses that term lightly. Yesterday, ALL of Crucible only got about 585 K players. That is about what Crucible used to AVERAGE everyday before Bungie forced CBMM on all of 6v6....and its FAR below the peaks of 800K that IB would usually drive Crucible engagement up to. So why is Bungie doing it? IMO, [i]Google Stadia[/i]. The Stadia players base (7.6K) is simply too small to support any kind of SBMM (2.6K in PvP)....and Bungie is unwilling to anger Google by calling attention to the low player numbers on what is considered one of that platforms flagship games.....and is unwilling to handle that platform differently. So the entire franchise gets stuck with CBMM to meet the needs of a single, badly underperforming platform.
