OP: [quote]We CREATED challenges when the game became too easy.[/quote] On another post where the OP is complaining about people speedrunning strikes: [quote]all I'm suggesting is that those of us who enjoy shooting aliens be allowed to do so[/quote] I wasn't aware shooting aliens was a challenge.

Absolutely agree man. It’s a major problem with today’s gaming industry, and not just with Destiny 2. I was fortunate to be an 80s child as well, and some of my favorites are still from that period and the 90s. My first experience was my friends copy of The Legend of Zelda. Or how my father went out and purchased the last new physical copy of Metroid in my area. I remember how fn awesome that game was, and still is to me to this day. Sure I can play that game or others in a few hours today, but to me they are still fun as hell to play compared to today’s market. Just recently I’ve been playing some games I have always loved from the past. Games I grew up on. Games that today I still have fun with, and fond memories of. Just the last few I’ve been playing: The Legend of Dragoon Final Fantasy VI (ff challenge with the wife) Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete Phantasy Star IV Suikoden Final Fantasy Tactics (current game playing) Xenogears (upcoming) All of these titles have meaning to me, and are still fun as hell to play. It’s not nostalgia for me. It’s the games themselves. They are fun, and remain to be to this day. Today’s day and age, just does not treat games the way they used to. It’s not about the fun anymore. It’s more on the lines of how can we make money off something with so little effort. Capitalism has gotten out of hand, and the gamers of today just help to fuel that fire. For every one or two good game now, there are hundreds of cash grab titles. Yeah some of them are fine, but it gets just sad over time. I go back to some of my classics (which I still own hard copies of all of them) to remind me of what gaming should be like when today’s games and how they are handled depress me. Introducing my wife to some of these classics (we are doing a single player numbered ff title challenge, most she never has played in her life, and it’s fun watching her get so much joy out of these games. For those who wanted to know, she’s currently through most of FF V right now.). Last night I was cracking up at messing with Algus/Argath in FF Tactics and embarrassing the crap out of him with a class setup I have never used against him before, while my wife completed Battle of the Big Bridge v Gilgamesh, and is now under Castle Bal/Val farming job levels, cracking up at the ghost statues die to softs. It’s why I think though that unless the gaming industry has a major crash again, we probably will never relive those moments with present gaming, at least not to the degree we should. Because it’s less about the care of the game and more about the money. Which is a real shame. Lol, I just noticed my list is mostly classic RPGs, my genre of choice ironically. I’ll have to add a few non-rpgs to my list at some point, lol.

I think people confuse entitlement with a genuine distaste for scummy business practices. It’s not “I want more cookies!”, it’s “You’re selling me half a tray of cookies at full price, and then trying to pass of the ones you took out of the tray as ‘extra’.” You could enjoy those older games because they weren’t pretending to be something that they aren’t. They lacked the shady undertones that have defined triple A titles as of late. You can dismiss criticisms of the game because “all we had were two sticks and a rock” and “it was uphill both ways”, but that doesn’t mean we should pay the price of a tree for a twig or excuse shoddy bridgework.

100% Its pretty sad to see. The fun was actually nerfed from gaming. Its damage goes well beyond just the toxic behavior as well. It makes many focus on finding people who benefit them, instead of building relationships, having fun, and gaming. People will befriend complete asshats, as long as they can help them complete raids, trials, etc. They will except this behavior and take being treated second class, for some loot. It empowers the toxic behavior. Gaming and games are moving away from 90% of the players, likely even higher than 90%. It would be like baseball/mlb deciding to cater to Mike Trout. Design the game and rules around his 1 of 1 greatness. How many could enjoy that? How many can do what he does? Who could keep up? Would it be even be fun trying to keep up? When we were kids and playing street ball, we all lined up and picked teams. Best to worst, but everyone made a team. Gaming world is on a path to just picking the top 2-3 and sending the others home or let them watch. The masses dont want “watchable” content, as bungie has stated they are trying to make. The masses dont game to watch the “Trouts” game. They want to play and try for a day one raid clear, not watch the top 3-4 teams try for worlds first. Sadly, Bungie has made its decision. They seem focussed on catering to this new gamer. This is also why many of us are playing destiny alone, as most of our friends have moved on. The destiny community is made up of the new gamer, a few of the old gamers who are trying to hang on, and new people trying it out. I think this is why they added f2p. It inflates the player pop stat and hides the truth. The only thing that will change the course bungie is currently on, is those who arent happy with the path, taking their money and walking away. Also, quit watching and/or supporting those who gain from this gaming style.

Its crazy that I was actually just thinking about this the yesterday. How lucky I was to be regularly banned from inside the house without my parents knowing or really caring where I was. I think another one of the differences nowadays is that young people (and everyone else for that matter) seem to be able to pick their friends to a larger extent than what was once the case. People just have more choices these days when it comes to a lot of things. One thing I disagree on though is that games have always been about "leisurely play." This is somewhat true but with pretty much every game there are people who push them to the limits or put a ton of time into them. There may be a difference between what we would describe as a hardcore player today vs. someone who simply wanted to have a high score in something back in the 80s/early 90s but every popular game has always had its people who are a little bit more hardcore. I honestly don't see Destiny as that hardcore of a game in terms of the players it tries to cater to. The things that earn you the label of "hardcore player" in this game are so curated that in some ways the more destiny hardcore you become, the more you become a carbon copy of other players. There's very little of anything in this game that celebrates true no lifery and you can tell that its a conscious decision to not go down that path. Probably the right decision and I am in no way saying that the game should truly cater hardcore players but I've just really never understood why everyone thinks that it does. It just doesn't.

both subcultures should have their own devisions. Not one way, is ultimately the correct way to do thing. Sacrifices will always have to be made. But those who go the extra mile to create a game for their players to enjoy without any back room dealings, such as business, are the one's you should respect. I do not know if Bungie is one of these. Seems a but half and half, with the corporate side expecting to make money while the creative side wants to make an enjoyable game for players. Thus, this is where the strain on this game comes from.

I remember when gaming used to be fun and you could show off things you earned through playing the game. When developers had to create good content and DLCs, when they weren’t released so half baked (when content wasn’t removed too!) Now it’s all about micro transactions or game passes, people buying skins, boosting things etc. Since when did games become a fashion show? And ultimately who gives an F about skins anyway? The gaming industry seems to be heading into a direction I don’t like. Remaster after remaster, just create something new! From what I’ve seen so far the next gen consoles don’t seem very next gen to me. They make games look slightly better or load slightly faster, I wouldn’t call this next gen. Rant over.

I was lucky enough to be born at the very begining of the 80s so had a great childhood and have seen some of the pinnacle moments in gaming. I remember playing more outside and actually exploring the world, played many competitive sports and was an absolute gun on the skateboard and inline skates and yes often came home with cuts and bruises, those were the days..... Started gaming on the old Atari and then commodore 64 with a tape deck (good old 30-45 minute load times) finally Dad bought us an Amiga 500 which is what really got me into gaming and one of his work mates burnt us games for 1$ a disk (1.44 floppy) the Amiga was a fun machine even with it's puny 512k ram (later upgraded to 1mb 😈) Then the Nintendo and Sega consoles started pouring out and changed gaming forever, another such change wouldn't be seen until the Sony playstation dropped and not long after Xbox entered the race. All the while PC gaming getting better and better and over the years I transitioned from my original 286 then to a Pentium and eventually kicked up to a proper gaming PC back in the late 2000s to a 6core CPU, 2gB GPU with 16GB ram. Fast forward to today and that isn't even considered entry level so it's the wife's Business PC and received a few little upgrades over the past decade to keep it passable but it's getting a full modern upgrade this new year. I'll stick with my 3yo gaming laptop for another year or so before I drop big $$$ on a new rig myself. And I'll agree back when games were complete at release they were Well thought out and designed and told a good story for the most part While we still on occasion see a few gems there's way to much released unfinished or a complete mess just to appease company 'bosses' and shareholders or meet release date headlines. Companies shouldn't be afraid to push out release dates to achieve a better product as a poor Initial release is alot harder to recover from than a pushed release date imo. Be interesting to see what happens to gaming over the next decade or 2 hopefully it doesn't all just become like the mobile phone money pit garbage.

I feel the problem stems far deeper into the human bahavior. I have a feeling new-age gamers are not being raised properly, therfor they have a lack of confidence in themselves, and so they constantly have to prove to any and everyone how good they are. It's the dad who never told his son how proud he was of him. The mother who doesn't tell her child how much she loves him. I was lucky, I've been gaming since the original Mario bros. and I never ever felt the need to prove I was better than someone else at video games. There is satisfaction in obtaining something rare(in D2), the hard way. But helping someone is even more satisfying (if the person deserves it and isn't just mooching help out of laziness.) I play with my son today, and we like hard content. We help others, and every day I tell him how proud I am of him, for everything he does outside of gaming. Being good at video games is nothing to be proud of, being a good person and doing your best is. Nothing beats coming home from a hard days work and kissing your wife and kids and telling them how important they are to you. More people should try.

I grew up the exact same way, (I’m 31yo). I wasn’t allowed to come in from morning till dark and honestly even then I didn’t want to come inside. But I’ve honestly never looked at the development of games in this light and it makes perfect sense. Whole heartedly agree. As much as I love games, kids don’t need them until they are later on down in development. They need time to explore and develop their imagination.

Remember when a game was made and that was it? No patch notes, no adjustments made based off whining fan boys. The game was just how they made it

bungie is a business. they are going to try and make money.

100% agree. Best post I read on bnet.