JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
5/15/2020 11:22:05 PM
12

The Significance of the Nightmares on the moon: why did the Pyramid show us the nightmares that it did?

So, If you're like me, you'd probably question stuff that normally shouldn't be questioned. Stuff that should be very obvious, but you look for a deeper meaning. Well, today I wanted to do another one of those. Specifically; Why did the pyramid show the nightmares it did? And not just the ones in the final mission, but the ones from the Hunts. Is there any significance to them? Firstly, I believe we should establish a base line as to what a nightmare is, and their purpose. Take this extract from the lore book "Letters from Eris", entry "Regarding Nightmares" [quote]The Nightmares appear to be extracted from our very psyche—violent manifestations that wreak havoc, tormenting us with our past trauma. They tease us with a life we once knew, prying into our minds and attacking our most vulnerable points. This assault on our emotions is aimed to weaken us and our sense of purpose. [/quote] They're taken from our psyche, and used to torment us. Pretty straightforward. So let's start with some of the obvious ones, then move to the ones with arguably less significance. [b]Crota:[/b] The Eater of Hope should be one of the most obvious ones. Alone, he slew many a Guardian during The Great Disaster, ruined Eris Morn's on a Paracausal and Psychological level, and held a major stronghold on Luna, which gave the Hive (mainly the Spawn of Crota and Hidden Swarm) an ease of access to Terra. He plagued Guardians as a whole, and his death brought with it one of the most monstrous creatures we've faced in the form of Oryx, the Taken King. Crota's nightmare hunt is labelled "Aspect of Despair" and that title fits very well, given the level of Despair and ruin he has left in the System. [b]Ghual:[/b] Dominus Ghaul, should also be kind of an obvious one. He led to the Death of...well, a lot of beings; from Humanity in the City, to the Awoken to the Eliksni and anyone else who wasn't Cabal. He became "A god" and then died to an actual one. He was chosen out of this anger we'd had towards him. Which makes sense, as he's identified as "Aspect of Rage". He has a nightmare made of him, thanks to this deep rage many many beings have for him. [b]Fikrul:[/b] Now, this is one of the kinda obvious ones, but also one that doesn't make much sense. The Nightmare of Fikrul is obviously brought back as he's one of those responsible for Cayde-6's death. But why him? Why not Reksis Vahn? Why not Pirrha? heck, Why not Uldren Sov? Well, Firkul is known as "Aspect of Insanity" which could perhaps suggest his origin for why he was brought back as a nightmare. In our interactions with the Fanatic, Firkul states how "We… are alike. Trapped in death… A never-ending dance". We are very similar in that regard. The difference (other than paracausality) is that we aren't evil, or at least in the same regard as he is. He is not sane. I mean, canonically he's revived over and over and is constantly killed by us. So, in the eyes of Vaas, he's insane (I understand the definition of insanity is very different from the very quotable line from FarCry 3, but you get my point). In essence, the Nightmare of Firkul was made from the basic unstable idea that we'd go insane, and become like him. (Thanks for the help here ZeroTodana) [b]Skolas:[/b] So, I'd like to suggest this one isn't a nightmare conjured by our psyche, or anyone from the City. But instead from the Psyche of the Awoken. When Skolas the Rabid broke the Wolves out of the Prison of Elders, they slaughtered many Awoken, Paladins included. There's also the chaos Skolas brought to the Reef during the Reef Wars after the deaths of both Irxis and Parixas (the other two fighting for Kellship). "Regarding Skolas" from the Letters from Eris book: [quote]The Kell of Kells. Skolas. A true Nightmare if ever I've seen one! I apologize, my Queen, if the mention his name unearths any foul memories. I know the toll it took on the Awoken when he waged his unholy war on the Reef, rallying the House of Wolves in an uprising that saw the loss of so many Awoken lives. We mourn them still to this day.[/quote] The Nightmare of Skolas is called "Aspect of Pride" which makes sense given how much pride he had in himself and his claim to being the "Kell of Kells". [b]Taniks:[/b] Taniks, well..."has no House. He kneels before no banner, owes allegiance to no Kell. He is a murderer, and very good at what he does." Memes aside, this makes sense as to why his nightmare was made. I'd bet his Nightmare was formed from the psyche of Shiro, Ikora and anyone close to both Cayde-6 and Andal Brask. It also makes sense for his name. "Aspect of Isolation". He had no house. He isolated himself from his kind. It also kind of fits the boss fight, where we fight him in a very isolated area, in the Shadow of his Ketch. It could be a case, that his nightmare was formed out of the isolation we felt in his wake, due to those he killed. [b]Phogoth:[/b] This is where we get to the "more speculative" territory. The Nightmare of Phogoth, the Untamed, I believe is more of a throw away boss to give the amount of nightmare bosses an even number, but when you look at the title it was given, "Aspect of Fear" and then place that alongside this extract from the "Regarding Phogoth" letter: [quote][b]Phogoth was a creature bred for one purpose: destruction.[/b] The Hidden Swarm kept this Ogre alive through foul rituals of rebirth, chained up in the Summoning Pits, [b]its unnatural existence a reminder of the threat the Swarm poses[/b].[/quote] I'd like to argue that the point of the pyramid showing us the Nightmare of Phogoth was due to the fear people in general have about the threat of destruction the Hive possess. This is meant to be both a threat and a reminder of the Hive's strength against us. [b]Omnigul:[/b] Now, this one is likely due to Eris' feeling during the Shadowkeep campaign. Take this extract from the "Regarding Omnigul" letter: [quote]The Pyramid is playing its cards and going "all in," as Cayde-6 would say. Oddly, I find myself thinking of him more now that he is gone. I suppose I've grown closer to other Guardians and the Vanguard than I realized.[b] If the Pyramid is dragging the Nightmare of Omnigul into the fray, it tells me one thing: we are getting closer.[/b] I am aware that these Nightmares are not truly what they represent, but the mind can be fooled, even momentarily. In those moments lies all the destructive power the Darkness hopes to exploit. I fight back, but the Nightmares grow stronger. I worry how long I can bear the weight the Pyramid places upon me. [b]These memories seek to tear me apart, my Queen, and the familiar pang of weariness rears its ugly head. I will do my best, knowing it will not always be enough. For now, I assume the worst is yet to come[/b].[/quote] The Anguish she feels summoned Omnigul. The fact that the pyramid brought back not only the Nightmare of Fikrul, Crota and Ghaul, as well as Sai and Vell also. The memories haunt her and everyone else, and thus the anguish of Omnigul's acts (such as killing Sai and being responsible for breeding Crota's Spawn into reality) makes sense as to why she was manifested. [b]Zydron:[/b] Now; imma be honest, this one stumped me for a little bit. But consider this (again thanks ZeroTodona for your help here); This Nightmare is labelled "The Aspect of Servitude" so perhaps the idea behind this nightmare is to reflect the concerns some have about whether we are slaves to the Light. Just as the Vex are slaves to their own design. An alternative, and more plausible concept, the Nightmare of Zydron was brought back to serve as a way to guide Guardians to becoming slaves to itself, similarly to Kentarch-3 (although whether they truly gained the ability to wield the darkness is unclear). It's made from the Darkness's own psyche to have slaves, but it's been twisted to fit it's own whim. Not gonna lie, this one is probably the hardest to find significance. So yeah. Others may deem the significance of the nightmares in different ways (especially that last one), I'd love to hear your opinions on the subject below.

Posting in language:

 

Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • There still many questions left unanswered as to their main goal. Only thing we know is that they fought against The Traveler, lost, retreated for a millennial....until Dominus was defeated during the “The Red War” they awaken due to The Traveler’s awakening & his power acted like a beacon. The pyramids are just the first major evidence about their existence being mentioned but also to physically see it for ourselves. We now already learned within “Shadowkeep” on they’re capabilities. But it seems that there’s more to than what we know so far. So the questions are still needed to be anwsered. Why now?? How were they able to find us? Who or what are they?? What is their endgame?

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Edited by Corrick II: 5/17/2020 1:44:47 AM
    Am I the only one that finds it annoying they showed us “nightmares” at all? It just seems like a lazy narrative crutch. Bungie has the opportunity to create a truly alien force of inconceivable power and inscrutable ambition and they basically throw a typical hallucination-causing movie-trope ghost at us... that talks to us and takes our form no less. I would much prefer an unknowable, unstoppable force that we have to figure out even what it is at the risk of going insane before trying to kill it. This should be HP Lovecraft material but instead we’re getting RL Stine.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    3 Replies
    • Is our guardian genuinely meant to be afraid of the Nightmares?? Pretty sure my guy sees it as just an inconvenience, god slaying has become the norm

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      1 Reply
      • Edited by Bumblebee793: 5/19/2020 12:34:42 AM
        Another interesting thing is in one of the thorn lore cards from d1 Dredgen Yor mentions the "nightmares" he saw on the moon. Could be nothing but it is pretty interesting.

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • The darkness is insidious and uses us against ourselves. Guardian games, how did the idea get into the minds of the Vanguard? Titans against Hunters and Warlocks; the start of our downfall? The darkness claimed to be our salvation. It's going to persuade us that the traveller was wrong to raise us using ghosts and that we would be better resting in peace. The Drifter didn't want to be risen (lore man with no name). I think his gambit game of gathering dark energy is may be to use against the traveller. He says he is storing dark energy 'to release it'.

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        2 Replies
        • I think it would've been cool for the 'final boss' of Shadowkeep to be the nightmare of our very own Guardian that confronts you in the final cutscene. One that represents your failures and regrets. Instead, there was nothing. You just warp back to Eris with an evil beach ball.

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        • If you listen to Toland's stories on the moon, he tells you that Phogoth and Omnigul slaughtered guardians at the great disaster.

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          2 Replies
          • ... Obviously the pyramid should know that none of those nightmares truly intimidate me, now a world without tiddies, that is a true nightmare... [spoiler]not included in the DLC[/spoiler]

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          • The Nightmares are not for us, but the Nightmares of those they represent.

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          • Love the lore man Hey Cobalt

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          • See, that’s why I told you to make this one. Good job

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          • The darkness is testing us

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          You are not allowed to view this content.
          ;
          preload icon
          preload icon
          preload icon