Witness the anatomy of hypocrisy. Me: [quote]Microsoft and 343 are the same thing.[/quote] You: [quote]343 industries isn't the same thing as Microsoft studios but they are partners. 343 is comprised of some people from bungie and is like a sister company to bungie.[/quote] Me (after examining why everything you said about 343 being just a 'partner' of MS was incorrect) [quote]So, after all of that nonsense, do you now understand that Bungie are not affiliated with Microsoft or 343? And do you understand that 343 is a company established and run by Microsoft?[/quote] You: [quote]Lol I've known that from the start[/quote]

Just because 343 was created by Microsoft doesn't mean they aren't also partners. Also just cuz they are directly made from Microsoft doesn't mean they are the same Jeez you are are looking for any little thing to be right about while trying to knock me down So I'm sorry I didn't phrase everything how I intended at the start.

[quote]Just because 343 was created by Microsoft doesn't mean they aren't also partners.[/quote] No, it's just an incredibly inaccurate description of their relationship. But the part where you said that 343 AREN'T Microsoft defeats your excuse. Y'know, you can just admit you were wrong, haha. The bottom line is that 343 messed up Halo 4, caused almost every Aussie I know to quit Halo because of the removal of local search games, the episodic mode was the more repetitive than Destiny ever was and laggy to the point of being unplayable. Then they try to release a bunch of games that Bungie had already made and got working a long time and they don't work either. After months of patches and apologies and promises of free stuff and it's still not fixed, AND THEY OWN THE SERVERS!!! Like I said. Bumbling. And you can't blame the servers cause many other games run on the Microsoft Azure servers just fine. You can knock Destiny all you want, I'll agree the game is a repetitive, story-barren, grind fest. But at least Destiny works.

In my defense you said that 343 was the same as Microsoft, which is not true. While Yeah they are created from Microsoft that doesn't mean 343 is Microsoft or is the same as Microsoft, rather they are a branch off of Microsoft and are more than just partners. So while maybe I didn't choose the best words and can be taken as wrong, you did not choose the best words as well and can be taken as wrong. I agree that halo 4 was not at all as good as the others and it lacked a lot of things that an actual halo game should have such as map control which was almost none existent in 4, great well structured competitive maps which it lacked and loudouts were just a stupid idea. The campaign I liked cuz I know they tried to relate it to the comics and books with all the forerunner stuff. Yeah the issues with only the online was bad but now it's much better and easily playable. people are also playing the Beta for 5 which has great competitive play and map structure/control with a good blend of game mechanics available to everyone to re invent it the series while maintaining its original strategy. The issue I have with destiny and Bungie right now is that they can almost be seen as con artists because they promised a game that they did not deliver. With most of the footage they showed being non existent in the game. On top of that, the game mechanics are down right horrible/repetitive but still keep us playing. And the dlc expansions punish players the were grinding for months, they make it better for a person who bought it at Christmas cuz then they can reach 31 with ease. They don't even have to beat atheon on hard. The back of the game even says experience a rich cinematic story. This series has so much potential and I will back it up because it's bungie regardless of what they didn't deliver. If destiny 2 isn't better I don't know then. So I'm in more of 343 mood now than a bungie one.

In terms of quality, it's a subjective matter so neither of us can be right. I said 343 were bumbling, I stand by it. You can disagree all you want, that's your opinion. And 343 and Microsoft are the same company. 343 employees are Microsoft employees. All the departments have names, some people work on Windows, others work on Surface, and I bet their branches have different names too, does that make them all separate companies? Nope. 343 is the name given to their department that works on Halo. They aren't a separate company. 343 IS just Microsoft, mate. That is undeniably factual.

Yeah we have our opinions in terms of how we feel about the companies, I do not deny that 343 has bumbled majorly but now so has bungie, the only difference is I haven't heard or seen an apology from bungie Also Saying they are the same is very general. To me That's like saying because I have all of my father's DNA and blood in me that makes me my dad, which isn't true, however I am a direct product of him We both lacked by saying something very general and easily misinterpreted you said they are the same and I said they are partners, both are right in a general since and both are also wrong on a technical level. Oddly enough I've actually liked arguing with you lol I know that's a weird thing to say and you probably don't feel the same ha.

As far as both companies go, I have little faith in either. 343 I think are just green and a slave to Microsoft's agenda. Halo, under Bungie, was an innovator, it put Xbox on the map (and Xbox put Bungie on the map). Halo set the precedent for shooters with shields, 1 button melee and grenade. And then it set the standard for console online play. Then forge and theatre just keep the innovation going. So many elements of the modern shooter come from Halo. They spawned Red Vs Blue which popularised machining too. Word on the street was that back in the day, Bungie were the divas of Microsoft Game Studios, they were left alone to keep laying golden eggs because they were a hit machine. I doubt we'll see innovation with 343's Halo. I think 343's Halo will become a design by committee affair that brings together the most profitable aspects and trends of the best selling shooters (COD, Destiny, titanfall etc) from the last few years and attempt to ride on that success. I think their design philosophy will be more about safety than risk. Their games will be collages of their competitors. Basically they will be imitators, not innovators. Now, on to Bungie. They're not the same Bungie that they used to be. There used to be a HUGE community focus, on the forums, cool stuff like the Bungie triathlon, Bungie Day. Bungie used to be a company that sent actual steaks to gamers who beat them at Halo, a company that released free maps on Bungie Day. They had such a odd streak and a love for their community. The new Bungie gave us a trailer for Bungie Day... The new Bungie fired my favourite composer of all time (I mean really, Marty MADE Halo! He gave Halo it's DNA, if he's disputing his pay, then PAY HIM MORE). Most of the grizzled ancients that made Bungie what it was, dudes like Staten, are gone. I don't think Bungie owes any apologies for Destiny, it wasn't broken. It's flawed as hell, but it works and you can choose to like it or not. I commend Bungie for trying to do something new, but I'm really worried about the more corporate and sterile culture that seems to surround the company now. As far as 343 goes, they've made me hang up my Halo fandom, I'm just over the series now. After H4, Spartan Assault, Sarah Palmer, I have no excitement left for it. Sounds depressing, sorry. But I honestly feel like a dude who's favourite watering hole was closed down.

Yeah I feel you on pretty much all of that, I know destiny can be something truly amazing and I don't like the bad name 343 branded halo with due to halo 4 and yeah bungie has really changed a lot. Halo was the shit, and it definitely won't bring experiences like before, that is certain. And yeah the music isn't as good now either which is sad cuz I loved halo music. One thing I will give destiny is the experiences I have had with people/friends. I can honestly say I've had some of the best moments on this game that I haven't had since old halo. And that's why I still play and have hope for it, cuz it's a great experience with the community.

I can't decide if destiny is a bad game with amazing elements, or an amazing game with some bad elements. Probably the later. At the base of it, there's is an insanely competent, solid, fun as hell shooter. And the art is amazing, it's gobsmackingly beautiful to look at. But obviously it's got story and content problems. But at the end of the day I think I have over 400 hours logged. So that speaks a lot. I guess I just expected a LOT more from Bungie. And who knows, the potential is there, it could become incredible over time. The foundation is there.