Actually, have you looked at PC games as of late? I dont know what has become the "norm" for xbox, but if $20 is acceptable for what Bungie has labeled an "expansion," I don't want it either. 3* missions... This game will cost around $100 after both expansions come out. In TOTAL(game+both expansions) the game "content" is only worth the initial $60. This is based off of what I have come to see as "normal" over the past few YEARS of gaming experience. To compare this to a NORMAL MMORPG World of Warcraft- lets look at the expansion. There are HOURS of game play experience to play in before you are able to experience the expansion in full. I am not talking about gearing at level cap, I am merely discussing the raw expansion/content. The "monthly fees" as stated do help to fund the patches/mid expansion content releases/upkeep of the game(banning hackers etc). On that note go look at the [url=http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2014/09/10/destiny-crosses-500-million-on-day-one-biggest-new-video-game-launch-ever/]sales for Destiny[/url], now take in consideration the sales for this excuse for an expansion. Please do go on about how they cant afford to make a decent expansion at the listed price. The expansion releases are funded from the expected income from the sales of said expansion. This game banks on the expansions as is, seeing that the original game is watered down and lack-luster when discussing content. If all of the expansions are going to be as this was, you MAY have a full game by the time all expansions are released and payed for. Expansions are generally meant to revive a game, and add a new luster to draw back players/customers. This has done NOTHING to help me and I JUST started playing destiny as of a few days ago. The engine has SO much potential and none of it has been taken advantage of. The content of this game WITH the expansion could be wrapped up by stating, "this game/engine is as vast as an ocean with as much depth as a puddle." I have been here since day 1 of Halo and I have seen what you can do(content) Bungie... this is beyond hurting your reputation. This is a rip-off and quite frankly the epitome of what I have come to see as normal for console gaming. [url=http://thumbthrone.com/games/were-being-nickel-and-dimed-by-dlc/]Nickle and Dime-ing[/url] your customers to death is killing your reputation as console developers. Im not even mad, just very disappointing and hurt by your lack of fidelity to your customers(what you have shown us you are capable of).

Yes fixes were included in that patch but I'm talking about the 2 gig download, not the multiple smaller ones in between. There was one large download and install at some point prior to the exp. As fixing exploits and making minor updates is mostly appending code, there's no way that 2 gig file was all code just for that. There had to have been other content like new 3d models and a ton more code. It's up to you what you choose to believe, but my experience tells me they added a lot of new content at some point.

Cheers

[quote]You can play the entire DFO game and never spend a dime. [/quote] Yes you can, but you're missing the point completely of what F2P is all about. Just because people can play it free, doesn't mean that they are purely providing the game freely (out of the kindness of their hearts). They are absolutely banking on people to buy stuff in their game. They do this by building loyalty, as I explained. If EVERYONE played the game completely free, there would be NO F2P games. They just have a different business model than standard games. [quote]People that play for free are not leeches.[/quote] They provide a community, but they alone do not support the game. In order to keep playing 100% freely, others have to buy stuff. So when you're taking advantage of other people's support, while not supplying any support of your own, what do you call that? I consider that leeching off of other people's financial support of the game. You could be more politically correct about it if you wish, but that's the basics of it. Free players are NOT the primary focus of F2P games. F2P games will initially focus on building the community first, then everything else is to entice sales. Like I said, they focus on a different business model, but it's still entirely business. If you somehow believe that F2P companies have some huge focus to provide things for free, you're naive. That's just the impression, but in the end, they are no different than Bungie/Activision where they need to pay their developers, and produce a profit. If there is no profit, there is no F2P game. You heard of the F2P Facebook game, "Restaurant City"? Yeah, they shut that game down because they lost retention and didn't turn as much of a profit as they use to. So the point is, regardless of what impression you get from an F2P game, their goal is to make a profit. They just do it differently than the standard Pay2Play games. They have a larger incentive to provide content first, build the community, then profit from that community with whatever sale model they come up with. Some companies may show that they care about their community better than others, but in the end, it's all about profit. [quote]Destiny is milking you, not game that gives you everything for free. That is not subjective.[/quote] Did you intentionally change my wording around to suit your argument? This is what I said: [b]"What you find has more value is completely subjective. "[/b] You personally find more value in playing DFO, and less so in Destiny. I personally find no value in playing DFO, because I'm not interested, but having spent numerous hours in Destiny, I find the price acceptable. That is what subjective means. Another difference is that standard games, like Destiny, you pay just once for the target content. That's it, no more sales of anything until next expansion. F2P games continually offer things you can buy, either to help with game progression and/or aesthetic purposes. There is NO LIMIT to what you can buy. You could spend thousands of dollars in the game, and they won't stop you. That's also considered milking you, because they're enticing you to buy as much and as often as you can. Just because you did it voluntarily and because you felt value for it, doesn't mean they didn't milk your wallet. I get that you're a fan of DFO and you want to defend them and all, but outside of your biased opinion, they are all companies that need to make a profit. So DFO's incentive to make that profit is to provide good content and milk players with in game purchases. That's it. They managed to entice you to spend hundreds of dollars, so they did their job well. Edit: for the record, I have no problems with F2P games and I too have spent lots of cash on those that retained my interest. Regardless, I still understand that F2P games are for profit. I'm also not saying Destiny is the best bang for the buck for everyone. Again, it's subjective.