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Edited by Noctroglyph:
12/7/2014 6:25:55 AM
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I said this below, but it has merit, so I'm posting it again.
They took out the existing sell mat for marks plus rep for a very simple reason: exploitation.
Keeping both exchanges, as they are, can be exploited in that players could buy mats, then sell them [i]and gain Crucible Rep.[/i]
You could, essentially, buy as much crucible rep as you could afford.
If they dropped the rep gain, I'd see no issue with it.
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I don't see anyone could exploit it. The exchange rate is to low. Old rate: 50 materials traded for 25 rep and 5 marks. New rate: 10 marks for 20 materials. So if you turned in a full cap of 200 vanguard marks (2 weeks worth, can only get 100 a week) trying to get crucible reputation you would get 400 materials. Every 50 materials turned in gives rep, and marks, and you know have 8 turn ins. That gives you 8x25=200 reputation, and 40 more marks. The 40 marks can be used to trade for 80 more materials, so one more turn in. So it would mean [b]two weeks worth of marks can be turned into 225 reputation.[/b] That is less than a tenth of a rank. How would that be an exploit?
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Edited by Noctroglyph: 12/7/2014 6:08:54 PMThe point is that you shouldn't be able to get any rep for free. The Marks cap wouldn't be a part of the equation: buy/sell/buy/sell could be repeated until you get bored of doing it. Like I said, if materials were sold and bought, and Crucible Rep was no longer a part of the equation, I think that would be both acceptable and awesome.
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But the marks cap would HAVE to be part of the equation. If you get to the weekly limit and trade more mats, the game won't give you marks. It has nothing to do with the max holding cap of 200 but the max earning cap of 100. Point is, between that cap stopping you from continuing to earn any marks past 100 and the exchange rate continually yielding less materials through each cycle of exchange, the amount of "free" crucible rep obtainable in a week is too low to even consider it a viable strategy or exploit. Therefore, all that is really accomplished by not allowing exchange both way is to cater to one group who enjoy playing to get marks and don't want to farm mats, while simultaneously alienating and punishing another group who enjoy farming mats and don't want to play certain things to get marks. Neither group is in the wrong for playing their way and both should be given equal opportunity to exchange what they have for what they want.
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Please re-read what I said (I'm not being a smart a$$, I just think you're missing my point). I'm saying that being able to buy then sell for currency plus rep is not right. I also said that I myself made use of selling mats for currency and rep, and recognized that the buff applied to all equipped gear, just like Vanguard bounties, when turned in. In the end, I think we would have to agree to disagree. I just think it's wrong to be able to buy crucible XP without having set foot in the crucible. Which I know, is odd, considering my stats, but comes more from my days as a game designer.
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I understand what you're saying. What I'm saying is, the amount of xp one could accumulate is not enough to make it worth taking away the ability to get the marks from mats, at least in my opinion. If it makes you happy, I definitely agree with you that removing the xp part of the system would make it easier to justify putting in both trade systems, but then once again you are penalizing honest players not trying to cheat the system, just looking to get a little extra love when they turn mats in like they used to get. There's no really good answer.
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Edited by Noctroglyph: 12/8/2014 5:46:46 AMI hear you. And I agree...no solution in this game is ever universally liked (grin). If only all conversations could be this civil, here. Great chatting with you, mate.
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How is it free? You had to do work to get the materials or marks. You are spending your resources on something. If someone wants to spend their marks to buy reputation instead of guns, armor, or materials, how is that choice wrong? I can see an issue if there were no caps on how many marks we can have, but we have caps on how many we can get each week and how many we can have total. As it is the time you spend to gain 100 marks you would already have gained more reputation compared to what you can buy.
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I go to dead orbit. 1. I buy materials for marks 2. I sell the same materials back for marks + XP then, I repeat 1 and 2, without leaving the vendor. [b]Net cost in marks:[/b] zero. [b]Net XP gain[/b]: depends on how long I can stand doing it. (I'm guessing a long time, though, given how often we repeat strikes.) Even if the buy/sell rate was different, you're getting XP for doing nothing but trading materials back and forth, which isn't what XP is for. Like I said in my earlier post, I take no issue with a 2-way exchange of materials. Just take XP out of the equation.
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The exchange isn't even, it's a really bad exchange rate. If you stood in front of him you need 30 marks to buy enough materials for 25 reputation and only 5 marks back. I already showed the math earlier. To start with you have to begin with materials or marks. 60 marks or 100 materials to have enough to trade to get back enough for a second exchange. As I pointed out earlier you are also restricted by how many marks you can have and gain.
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Edited by Noctroglyph: 12/7/2014 9:19:01 PMI know, which is why in my second paragraph, I said that even if the exchange rate was uneven, "buying XP" could still be done, even with less efficiency. IMO (and it is just that, my opinion), one should not be able to buy XP. And I say this as one that did it: just look at my Patrol stats. I even turned in Mats even when I DIDN'T get marks, because the XP was far more valuable to me. (Remember that XP doesn't just apply to your character, but also all of the gear you currently have equipped when you turn in/exchange.) I'm not saying it's a "one or the other" thing, I'm just saying that if they brought it back, the mechanic would probably still need adjustment. (EDIT: added note on XP and gear.)
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Yeah, I would agree about taking experience out of it. Misunderstood what you were saying.
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I agree however the update completely took away something that was in the game from day 1. They could have implemented a way to purchase mats that would not have led to easy gains. The exploit would not be in question if they just went about it differently.
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Agreed. From all the complaints about changes it seems like they are knee jerk decisions without much thought of what it may break. Almost all, if not all, weapon nerfs were to fix issues in PvP. That lead to issues hurting PvE. Why can't the weapon tweaks be separated? Are PvP and PvE that much integrated? If so, that would seem to indicate Destiny was only going to be a PvP or PvE game not both. It would be interesting to know what it was to be at the start. Then the posting started and all the hate started flowing both ways. I am OK with complaints but replies should mostly be counter replies with suggestions or alternatives to help someone with a problem. Negative, nasty replies doesn't help anyone. I am sure there will always be a all percentage of evil players who enjoy demeaning others. Why divide the community? It doesn't add, only discourage working together so everyone can enjoy the game their own way. I am sure others could list all the fixes that just broke something else. Maybe it broke it to advance a better way. Just let us know how it did. Why not add random buffs to PvP like they do with PvE. Random buffs to random guns and supers. That would add a variable to automatically nerf the go to weapons or super. The few PvP matches I've been I think I was the only one trying a pulse rifle. Never saw a machine gun either. Granted I only play a few times but auto + rocket launcher + shotgun/fusion is all I saw. It was more repetitive and boring than farming (to me anyway lol). It would be interesting to force you out of the same load outs and maybe allow fresh options. What the heck is Salvage PvP? I never saw it. Does it exist? Why isn't it available all the time? Just add stuff to the game not remove. Is that too much to ask for? Let's see what the DLC provides. I expect there will be things Bungie kept under wraps to surprise us all. If not, oh well...
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Let's hope on Tuesday those of us who have thousands of materials stored can use them for something good. I got too many stashes of 200 in the tiny vault and on my characters to keep. Got to believe farmers of materials can still thrive in Destiny. It was a great way to pass time while watching a show or doing something else. I got all of my exotics farming so it was an advantageous excursion for me.
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I understand your position. It is frustrating when the game mechanic changes radically. I used that system as well until it was removed, but I will say that the RNG drops do seem to be increasing, and this last week I actually had to farm materials for weapon and gear upgrades for the first time since I bought the game.
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#Mats4Marks I'm hoping we'll all be pleasantly surprised on Tuesday. Hopefully they add some cool stuff for both those who bought the DLC and those who didn't. I think I read something but since I already bought the DLC I didn't read in detail. When a company quickly drops content or additions for those who bought the game quickly would be a horrible precedent. I still believe Bungie can right the ship and not forget those who don't have the cash to buy DLC.
