I feel you man. I've done the raid on normal without using any glitches or push-off-the-edges 5 times with a good group (2 titans, 3 hunters(!) and a warlock), and when were down a man or two and wanna try hard, everyone just wants to hide and snipe or use nades to push bosses, which I think is lame. Why can't we just do what we do on normal but focus more? I long for that mentality to be the norm.