[quote]I With two months left before expansion, shouldnt the people who have played everyday with no luck for a raid run still be able to say that they are level thirty? Getting back to basics, isnt leveling up about [i]playing[/i] the game in the first place?[/quote] Im lv27 and when I hit 30 I want it to be because I'm good and can beat the hardest content, not because I bought the game earlier than someone else. Obviously it takes some time to get to raid level but ultimately getting to 30 should be based on skill.

No.. What you are saying, basically, is that it isn't fair you aren't level 30 whereas people who have done the raid, are. Why should you get a free pass to level 30, or in broader terms, the reward at the end of a goal, without doing all the work that is/was required to complete said goal? Because you feel you are unlucky? This transcends a video game...welcome to real life.

"Why should you get a free pass to level 30?" A free pass? Hundreds of hours put into this game is considered a free pass? and where did i say it was free? That faction armor was NOT free. Yes, it is unfair that raiders are the only ones who get level 30, because like i said, leveling up involves PLAYING the game. Not completing a certain mission and getting lucky.

It requires playing and completing a certain part of the game..not just 'any' part of the game. Perhaps you should devote more time to raiding instead of the Crucible if you want the gear that will allow you to reach level 30.

Which bring up the whole matching making problem. Some of us have school and jobs.

Like I don't? You spend 100+ hours on a game, but then use an excuse about school and work and matchmaking? You are provided with a forum, with groups, and clans, that you can navigate through to find a group of people to play with. You do not need match making for the raid.. Would it be helpful? Sure.. Would it be ideal? No.. For example, I have a friends list and clan with which I group with, and get to know and enjoy the game with. Perhaps you should also try the same...and not be lazy, or spout excuses.

100+ hours, spread out over the month the games been out. Im not saying getting raid gear is impossible. Like someone else said, it wouldnt be as bad if gear wasnt random. But rng has caused equally capable people to be stuck at lvl29. How is that fair?

RNG is RNG.. It must be different for someone who has not had experience with a game loot system that utilizes RNG to this extent. I had 10+ years devoted to WoW, and I wasn't able to get some drops or items I wanted due to RNG.. Case in point, those that played WoW recall Baron Rivendare's mount..had a 1% or less than 1% drop rate...I farmed that thing for months and months...but it never dropped for me. Someone in the guild ran it right after I had left and he got it on his first try...same thing as when I was running end game content, looking for that 1 item I needed off a raid with 10 bosses...that had like a 10% drop chance..and that was WITH static loot tables...but I never got it. Others did...but I didn't. The difference here is, I didn't piss and moan about it. I kept grinding for items I wanted..sometimes you get them, sometimes you don't. It is a little unnerving, sure...but eh...it happens. It's just the way it is. RNG is RNG.. The fact remains you must do the raid to get the gear..so whining about it, does nothing. Also, it's interesting you are so pissed about it, having only killed 23 enemies in the Raid.....hmmm...weird.

Ive only killed 23, because as ive said, raid parties are the hardest part. Im speaking for the public.

You are not speaking for the public. My clan runs multiple raid groups each week..multiple people fill out the roster for multiple raid groups to help everyone as much as possible. Find a clan, or group of players to run the raid on a more consistent and constant basis...instead of using that time complaining that you think something is unfair...which, for the record, isn't unfair. If you can't find a group to raid with, that is your own fault..not Bungie's.

I'm not opposed to doing the raid for good gear. What I'm opposed to is looking the same as everyone else and fighting for gear with random stats that doesnt fit my play style but is still required to be "maxed" in destiny.

You've flipped flooped.. First it was mostly about not getting to level 30 without the Raid, then it was about match making, and now it's about looking the same.. Itemization, from what I can tell in this game, is negligible at best. It may come into play more in the Crucible, but for PvE it hasn't once mattered for me..so using your play style as an excuse is a bit of a stretch for me. What does it matter if you have the same gear? It's raid/tier gear...it's going to look the same for every class that has it...that's the bloody point of tiered gear! It's a set of gear, that is completed via raiding or other means. Why are you not bitching and whining about all the sets of gear sold at other vendors? I've come across many folks with the Ghost Angel armor, or Dust Walker, etc..etc... You only seem to care about raid gear looking the same..which..baffles me. Sounds like you are just grasping at straws for the sake of being argumentative. Multiple people have offered suggestions (myself included) as a way to get into the raid and reach that ever impressive level 30. For what it's worth..level 30 will be replaced by a level 40, or 50, or 60, soon enough..I wouldn't get too bent out of shape if you don't hit it. That feeling of replacing epic gear with a rare piece when an expansion will soon be felt by members of this community that have yet to experience it..and I'm sure the forums will be flooded with people upset that their raid gear is now useless...the same gear they spent so much time trying to get..

Did you actually read my post? "First it was mostly about not getting to level 30 without the Raid, then it was about match making, and now it's about looking the same.." I listed all of those save matchmaking because there's enough talk about that already. Furthermore "You only seem to care about raid gear looking the same..which..baffles me." when bungie advertised this game, being unique was one of the center points. It's YOUR guardian, the said. but to get to the level cap you have to look like everyone else. see the problem people have?

No, I don't see the problem you have. Well, let me rephrase. I understand your concern, but trying to tell you it is a moot point and not worth getting in a tizzy over. It's tiered gear..it's a set of gear that goes together... You aren't too familiar with MMOs are you? If not, then I can at least understand the basis of your argument....but just know that tier gear, for any class, will look the same for everyone. That's just the way it is for tier sets of armor. If you want the raid tier set of gear...then that's what it will look like. If you want to reach level 30, you will need to get the raid tier gear. Welcome to MMO style games and gearing. Apologies if you were expecting something different.

It's not that I don't understand that. it's more like.. they were lazy for not making more sets of raid armor. even the factions have two sets per faction that cater to different needs.

This is the first raid :) And the game has been out for a very short amount of time. I wouldn't be surprised if the next DLC has a level 40 raid, with a new set of tier gear. The thing is, it would not make sense to have multiple raids that offered equivalent sets of gear, resulting in the same level of character. However, I am hopeful Bungie adopts a loot system similar to WoW - it was a good one. For example, when you kill a boss, a token would drop - it was a random token that 2 or 3 different classes shared, to futher add to the loot tables of bosses. People would bid/roll on the token to see who would get it, and in turn be guaranteed a piece of gear. That token could in turn be taken to a quartermaster back in town and exchanged from 1 to 3 possible (different) gear pieces - they all looked the same, minus different coloring/shading/etc.. on the gear, with different stats. These pieces in turn corresponded to the 3 different roles/talent trees of that class. In the above image, the colors reflect the current tier - 10, 10.5, etc.. which related to 10-man raids, 25-man raids, 10-man heroic and 25-man heroic raids. Different stats were on the same 'level' of gear..but the gear looked the same, no matter which spec you were. If you wanted different color gear, you had to work on the higher difficulties. Here is a link describing the look: http://images.mmosite.com/photo/2009/10/18/wows644urUDd7A4FK.jpg Each set of armor had set bonuses as well..which was pretty nifty. So, if that is something like you were wanting, then I would be inclined to agree with you. But so far, this game is still in its infancy. I have hopes for improved raid tiers and such, but as you can see...the gear 'looks' the same..minus very small and minute differences. Having a raid of 5 warlocks with the same gear had no impact on my commitment or devotion to the game..it actually enhanced it to the point of more competition and such. I have no doubt something like this will eventually make it's way into Destiny...as the above scenario was not all entirely present in the first expansion of WoW.....close, but not as in depth. Perhaps Bungie wasn't expecting people to blow through content at the rate they did..who knows.

Yea. It is still very new. Thats why i posted my feedback, if there are no suggestions from the community, then the same people who thought purple engrams should give you green items will be the only ones furthering development, which doesnt seem to be very ideal. Also RNG is the only reason I'm still playing. Everyone knows the game has barely any content, and it's likely bungie knew it too. Hence RNG. But anyway, you're right, what I've been meaning to stress is variety. How that variety arrives, whether through increased faction rank (perhaps, complete the raid with three pieces of faction armor and faction class item equipped?) or more sets of raid gear, or higher rewards for scoring high in the crucible, it doesn't matter. It's primarily the desire, which bungie encouraged, to look unique.

Ah - I believe now we are on the same page ;)

Good, I've edited my posted, your feedback was very helpful:)

Aweosme! Sorry if I was a bit brash earlier..however, I did join your cause and created a new thread regarding this exact issue: http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/72824420 Hopefully this gains some traction ;)