If the precursors got involved I'd have to let the Jove enter as well.

So be it, they'd better be some god killers then.

Jove ships are not bound by the usual restrictions of the EVE universe. The battleship called a eidolon, has shield, armor and hull resistances of 99% literally negating almost any kind of incoming damage. They are also the only battleship class that can use titan doomsdays. Without the penalty to movement upon firing. They can also use capital size turrets with the tracking of tiny frigate size turrets.

From what I've heard (most of it might be exaggeration) 343i pretty much made the Precursors for the sole reason making sure Halo would win in forum universe fights. It's seriously sounds like some lore breaking extremely out of place shit a little kid would make up to make his OC the bestest ever and could totally beat up everybody else super easy. They fu­­cking think shit into existence. Which begs the question. How did a race of aliens that's at least somewhat grounded in reality kill off a race of gods that can think their tools of war into existence?

They didn't fight back, and the Forerunners were more advanced at the time. The Precursors simply marveled at the destructive capacity of their creation and offered no resistance. Death is meaningless to them. And come now, Bungie I(the actual creators of the Precursors, 343i simply explained them) did not create them to win vs. modes. That's childish to even say that. They are merely another god-race in the vast pantheon of god-races in sci-fi.

Bungie may have created them, but they only ever mentioned them in passing. It's 343i that actually put the meat on those bones. It's also incredibly telling when even 343i knows they've created something that's so out of place for this fictional universe that they have to plot them out of existence for the most part. Also considering how childish 343i is I wouldn't be surprised if that was the reasoning behind their decisions regarding the precursors. Seriously, 343i is trying to say that a race older than the universe itself that can think things into existence, bend reality at whim, and had structures that should easily shrug off anything save a properly configured Halo array was somehow less advanced that a race eons younger and simply allowed themselves to die off due to them being fascinated with their own genocide? The Precursors completely break the established themes and the reasons why so many people actually liked the Halo universe. The fact that everything was at least grounded in reality to some degree was part of what made the Halo universe so appealing. Now they've thrown in reality bending gods that can think shit into existence? I mean prior to 343i we only spent 6 games a bunch of books and a few comics dispelling the notion of gods in the Halo universe through the war with the covenant. Now they're doing a heel turn and going "Nope! There really are gods! We also had to plot them out of existence cause they were to powerful".

[quote]It's also incredibly telling when even 343i knows they've created something that's so out of place for this fictional universe that they have to plot them out of existence for the most part.[/quote]I don't see how the Precursors are out of place. While 343i were the ones who fleshed them out (even then we don't know what Bungie said about them in the Halo Bible), it was Bungie who set them at Tier 0, effectively making them immortal gods. And at the same time, the relationship the Precursors have with the universe melds together very well. Their existence and technological prowess simply adds even more focus onto the focal point of Halo: The Halo Array. [quote]Seriously, 343i is trying to say that a race older than the universe itself that can think things into existence, bend reality at whim, and had structures that should easily shrug off anything save a properly configured Halo array [b][u]was somehow less advanced that a race eons younger and simply allowed themselves to die off due to them being fascinated with their own genocide?[/u][/b][/quote]That's the thing. The point of the Precursors that makes them so awesome in Halo is that they're one of those few species that is truly alien. They literally had no concept of betrayal by creation until the Forerunners did it out of fear. For the bolded part, I point you towards the Covenant War. Because humanity arguably won, does that make the Covenant less advanced? Not at all. The Vietnam War is similar. Are the Vietcong more advanced than the US Military because they endured and beat back the US forces? No, weaknesses were exploited on all three accounts. We have no idea what the state of the Halo universe was at 10,000,000 BCE. Were the Precursors sharing their tech? It definitely seems that way as while ancient Forerunners were easily less advanced than modern ones, they were still able of completing technological feats that surpassed modern Forerunners. The forefront of that being the reconciliation mirrors that allowed 100,000 ships to exit the galaxy via Slipspace with negligible effects of Slipspace debt. [quote]The fact that everything was at least grounded in reality to some degree was part of what made the Halo universe so appealing.[/quote]Research done on the brain and human conciousness is an indescribably small fraction of neural physics. Greg Bear simply took what we know, and expanded it to galactic proportions while mixing it with scientific theories and cliches. [quote]Now they've thrown in reality bending gods that can think shit into existence?[/quote]Wait, when have they been able to just think stuff into existence? Their technology is still tangible albeit on the fringe of our imagination. [quote]"Nope! There really are gods! We also had to plot them out of existence cause they were to powerful".[/quote]The problem with the descriptor term of 'god' for the precursors is that they aren't literal gods. It's not like they are Zues or Yahweh. But so much of their descriptors line up with what we determine as a God, it's simply easier to describe them as gods, then go all out and say: A race of transentient lifeforms capable of creating and altering life to extreme degrees, bending and manipulating space-time and Slipspace, and masters of technology at Tier 0. [spoiler]Remember, it was Bungie who put them at that level. Here's the description they gave: [quote]TIER 0: TRANSSENTIENT As the [Forerunners] had no examples of civilizations with technological accomplishment greater than their own—with the exception of the Precursors—[b][u]this is a theoretical ceiling[/u][/b]. They can travel intergalactically and accelerate evolution of intelligent life. These may be creatures of legend.[/quote][/spoiler]

Keep in mind I've been going off of what Precursor fanboys have been telling me. I still haven't read Silentium. I've been told by most of these people that the Precursors think all of their stuff into existence. I don't know if it's because they have a hard time understanding Greg Bear or not. Nothing in the beastearium hinted at them being immortal gods. Being able to accelerate evolution and intergalactic travel are still somewhat grounded in reality. Your US/Vietnam and Human/Covenant war examples don't mean crap when the Precursors can bend reality to their whim. You can't fight against a god because they hold all the cards, there's nothing you can do against something that just bends reality to suit whatever needs it has. Plus when your race is older than the universe itself the sheer amount of experience gained from simply existing that long (not to mention technological progression) would make you ready for anything. You're seriously trying to tell me that not once in their over 13.8 billion years of existence they contemplated the possibility of betrayal? Jesus Christ, humans of today already have regular debates about the possibility of such a thing and they're infinitely younger, less advanced, and evolved than this race of god people. This shit is suspension of disbelief killing.

[quote]I still haven't read Silentium. I've been told by most of these people that the Precursors think all of their stuff into existence. I don't know if it's because they have a hard time understanding Greg Bear or not.[/quote]No idea. They might be getting confused with the concept of neural physics, a primary component of their technology. [quote]Nothing in the beastearium hinted at them being immortal gods. Being able to accelerate evolution and intergalactic travel are still somewhat grounded in reality.[/quote]I disagree [quote]TIER 0: [b][u]TRANSSENTIENT[/u][/b][/quote] Definition of Trans: trans- 1. a prefix occurring in loanwords from Latin ( transcend; transfix ); on this model, used with the meanings “across,” “beyond,” “through,” “changing thoroughly,” “transverse,” in combination with elements of any origin: transisthmian; trans-Siberian; transempirical; transvalue. Definition of Sentient: 1 : responsive to or conscious of sense impressions <sentient beings> 2 : aware 3 : finely sensitive in perception or feeling Now that we've dissected the word, we can put it into plain man's terms: Beyond Aware. A synonym of which is omniscience, a common trait of gods. [quote]with the exception of the Precursors—[b][u]this is a theoretical ceiling.[/u][/b][/quote]Even the Forerunners were incapable of theorizing what was beyond the Precursors. At that ceiling of technological advancement, all technology you can think of is possible, immortality of which is included. A very common trait of gods. [quote]They can travel intergalactically and [b][u]accelerate evolution of intelligent life.[/u][/b][/quote]They can enhance and modify intelligent life beyond what it was originally capable of. This is very common-place in creation myths. The story of Prometheus being a good example. [quote]These may be creatures of [b][u]legend.[/u][/b][/quote]Synonyms of 'legend': myth, saga, epic, tale, story, folk tale, folk story, fairy tale, fable, mythos, folklore, lore, mythology, fantasy, oral history, folk tradition. Most of which are words used to describe stories with gods or unbelievable feats of strength and power in them. The bias present in the bestiarum shows that even the Forerunners had a deity/god-like reverence towards the Precursors. [quote]Your US/Vietnam and Human/Covenant war examples don't mean crap when the Precursors can bend reality to their whim.[/quote]You haven't even read Silentium. You don't even know to what extent they bent reality in the novel. [quote]You can't fight against a god because they hold all the cards[/quote]You can if they just don't give a crap about fighting back. [quote]Plus when your race is older than the universe itself[/quote]I'd just like to point out that that's one possible interpretation of the quote provided. [quote]the sheer amount of experience gained from simply existing that long (not to mention technological progression) would make you ready for anything. You're seriously trying to tell me that not once in their over 13.8 billion years of existence they contemplated the possibility of betrayal? Jesus Christ, humans of today already have regular debates about the possibility of such a thing and they're infinitely younger, less advanced, and evolved than this race of god people.[/quote]There is actually an explanation for that. Over the course of their existence, an unfathomably long time, they have existed in many shapes and forms with varying degrees of advancement. In some forms they became great interstellar civilizations stretching across galaxies. In others, they would never develop the technology to leave their world, spending an eternity stuck there. And even more bizarre, they existed as sentient energy at some point. [spoiler]This is where the Flood came from. After being pushed back to the Large Magellanic Cloud by the Forerunners, some of them turned themselves into a powdery dust capable of regenerating all of the past forms they held. Time rendered the dust defective, and the powder instead spewed forth the Flood.[/spoiler] [quote]This shit is suspension of disbelief killing.[/quote]Well, it is for you because you're treating shitty second hand information as the absolute canon with out even considering they left out crucial details, or that even 343i isn't done explaining things yet.

You're getting pretty hostile over this. I've made it clear from my very first post regarding the precursors in this thread that I'm going off of second hand information here. Did I initially think they might have been leaving things out or interpreting it wrong? Yes, but I've had so many people on this site say pretty much the same thing regarding the precursors that I just started taking it as truth. In regards to the bestiarum, other than the intergalactic travel and accelerated evolution the rest of it always seemed like conjecture and superstition. Kind of like how the Covenant treated the forerunner. Because as I said earlier, Halo kind of had this dismissal of gods thing going at the time and had been doing it for a while.

[quote]You're getting pretty hostile over this.[/quote]The great fallacy of the internet: No one can hear the true tone of voice [quote]I've made it clear from my very first post regarding the precursors in this thread that I'm going off of second hand information here.[/quote]Yet you're still debating with that information. If you know you have faulty info, don't debate with it, ask for clarification. [quote]Yes, but I've had so many people on this site say pretty much the same thing regarding the precursors that I just started taking it as truth.[/quote]If something sounds like BS to you, ask for a quote/source to determine for sure. The Forerunner novels are not easy books. I'm no book master, but I'd rate them above the reading level of a sizable portion of the USA's population. It often leads to most fans embellishing what was read, or glossing over small details. The problem with that is that every detail in the Forerunner Saga is important. It tells something helpful or crucial about the narrative and/or theme at hand. [quote]In regards to the bestiarum, other than the intergalactic travel and accelerated evolution the rest of it always seemed like conjecture and superstition.[/quote]It is based on factual evidence. [url=https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/universe/detail/31107dae-cba1-43cf-b107-735035c848ff/bestiarum][i]"AN ARCHIVE OF SPECIES DOCUMENTED BY FORERUNNER MACHINES."[/i][/url] [quote]Kind of like how the Covenant treated the forerunner. Because as I said earlier, Halo kind of had this dismissal of gods thing going at the time and had been doing it for a while.[/quote]I agree. The theme of gods has been common place in Halo since the beginning. As I pointed out earlier, the prowess of the Precursors blurs that line of near-god to true god so much, it's easier to just generalize than give a paragraph explaining the true nature of their abilities and existence. Plus, like the Forerunners early on in Halo's history, we know barely anything about the Precursors. So a lot could change on what we know about them. All we really know is their technology. Nothing on their culture or individual lives. Similar to the Forerunners.

I was debating with it because nobody was telling me it was wrong and set things straight. You're leaving out an important word in the bestarium. That word is [b]may[/b]. That throws the entire thing into conjecture and invalidates it being completely factual. This throws their non-directly observed (as of the time the bestarium was first published) information (ie. technology and structures left behind) into question. However with the new lore implemented by 343i it throws old lore and wordings of things into question and the fact that this new lore supersedes old lore puts things out of whack a bit. Halo is kind of starting to remind me of the transition into the greater Star Wars EU now that I think about it more. I guess the fact that Bungie originally didn't plan for Halo to extend past one game is really starting to show now (especially with the spartan 2 numbers). I guess I'm in this weird limbo are with the Halo lore at the moment. I'm still interested in it, but not enough to actually care and investigate everything people tell me about it. I just assume that somebody who is more knowledgeable will correct me if the information I've been given is wrong.

dafuq? Hmm, well the terrans might be needed to take out the precursors then. If you watched the video above, the terrans where the original humans from Earth. They've been constantly advances in the thousands of years it took New Eden to get to the point where it is now from scratch. They actually found an ancient terran super weapon once. It one shotted an entire capital ship fleet. It caused the fleets shields to collapse on the ships, destroying them. They showed it in one of the trailers, I'll have to dig it up later.

It's too late at night for me to give a badass replay back at why the Precs got this, anyone wanne help a brother out?