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2/9/2014 5:11:31 PM
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This is a quality vs quantity debate mostly. Either everyone gets healthcare with low quality or not everyone gets it and high quality. Pre-Obamacare rollout the U.S. is #1 for quality of healthcare provided. So the debate stands, how to provide healthcare to all without sacrificing quality.
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  • What exactly do you think Obamacare does?

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  • An attempt to provide everyone with healthcare via health insurance. However, its many rules, regulations and taxes are having disastrous effects on the economy, private sector, and unfortunately people who already are insured.

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  • 'Disastrous' effects? Come on, at least make it believable.

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  • People loosing health insurance when it's goal was to insure the uninsured without affecting those already insured. Is disastrous. The overall reduction in our working working middle class and people now working less. Is disastrous. The shrinkage of the private sector (shifting to public) and over regulation of the healthcare portion. Is disastrous. These are bad things. I choose the word disastrous to make a better impact on that these events are indeed bad. Choice of negative/positive words have a large impact on conveying the importance of a message. I deemed this important so I used strong words.

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  • [quote]People loosing health insurance when it's goal was to insure the uninsured without affecting those already insured. Is disastrous.[/quote]Yes, the sheer [i]inconvenience[/i] of people having to switch from their crappy plans to slightly better ones is practically hurricane Katrina. [quote]The overall reduction in our working working middle class and people now working less. Is disastrous.[/quote]...As is all of those people choosing to work fewer hours because they can actually get healthcare without having to get it through an employer's plan! The horror! [quote]The shrinkage of the private sector (shifting to public) and over regulation of the healthcare portion. Is disastrous.[/quote] What are you talking about? Do you mean the expansion of Medicaid?

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  • Ruin our economy and lives even more than Obama already has...

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  • Please, I'd like to know more about how Obama has ruined everybody's lives.

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  • All middle and upperclass are paying [b]WAY[/b] more in taxes. ObamaCare has ruined everyone who actually makes a living for themselves live's. Illegal immigration has skyrocketed! Lower class can just sit around and collect money without even attempting to contribute to society. Unemployment is at an all time high. The government shut down. Debt ceiling was raised. I can keep going if you want...

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  • Edited by Seggi: 2/10/2014 1:43:08 AM
    An additional five percentage points on household income over roughly 400 thousand dollars doesn't affect the middle class - in fact, it affects households earning about eight times the median income. It's basically just a reversal of the bush cuts for the 1%. On Obamacare, so far most costs have been offset significantly by subsidies, to the point where it's cheaper for many people, even those who fall outside the Medicaid expansion (though those in poverty in red states have been largely shafted by state Republicans). Of course, even when we're talking about people well above the poverty line, only five percent of Americans got their health insurance on the individual market, anyway, so the effect is limited. It certainly hasn't ruined everyone's lives - most people wouldn't even have noticed it. On the other points, as far as I'm aware, Obama hasn't really changed anything significant when it comes to federal welfare, and the relatively high unemployment figures are attributable to the financial crisis, obviously. Meanwhile, illegal immigration hasn't 'skyrocketed', though it seems like it's increased a bit since the financial crisis knocked it down (the population of unauthorised immigrants, according to Pew, had been growing steadily over Bush's term, but took a sharp decline in Obama's first term - though again, that's because of the GFC, what you're actually claiming is wrong), and it'd be hard for you to pin sole blame on Obama for the shutdown, considering that it was mostly just a product of the house attempting to legislate by force. And if you think it's a good idea for the government to default on its debts, then I don't think you understand what that means. I invite you to keep going if you want, but only if you check your claims, and make sure you can pin down the blame to a specific action or piece of legislation (or collection of those) from the President.

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  • [quote] So the debate stands, how to provide healthcare to all without sacrificing quality.[/quote] You can't. Something will have to give.

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  • Not at all. There is no shortage of people trying to get into medical schools and nursing schools. All that one would need to do is invest more in infrastructure and personal.

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  • That may change soon. As long as the cost of medical education continues to soar and physician incomes continue to decline, the best and brightest students will start choosing other fields to follow.

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  • Which is unfortunate, and among the reasons why I think the cost of post-secondary education needs some serious addressing.

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