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Edited by Bolt: 10/17/2013 8:03:16 PM
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Bolt

Censorship is the more insidious side of Propaganda.

I'm sure some of have noticed a disturbing trend around our College campuses, or at least, you may regard it as disturbing by the end of this. There are dozens of "progressive" groups trying to shut down certain words or viewpoints. While I've never shared their mindset, I have to admit that very few of my Christian or Right-Wing friends can share their views without being labeled a racist or Luddite, and thus not worthy of listening to. It's even worse for my Muslim friends. Colleges, places where free-speech was once paramount, are becoming places of forced-conformity. This is extremely dangerous. Now I know many of you will respond with the claim that racist or misogynistic statements serve no purpose but to inflame, and thus we are losing nothing by banning them. You'll compare it to shouting "fire" without cause in a crowded movie theater. I agree with you. There are some probably saying "Hell yeah Silent; we should allow all free speech because it's in the Constitution AmericaGodExceptionalismFreedomBrettyGud." I don't agree with you. So why am I taking issue with this? Because the real issue, and the one that pundits don't throw back and forth (at least in a meaningful way), is who gets to decide what's racist or misogynistic? Who is the arbiter of "good taste?" Could it maybe, in some barely imaginable way, be possible that the person offering these classifications on any given topic has bad intentions? This is why the outright banning of words or viewpoints is dangerous. Not because "Muh Founding Fathers," not because it gives these groups the "outlaw" mystique (although that probably helps them somewhat), but because once you draw a line around unacceptable ideas, [i]other ideas[/i] can be pushed over that line. Propaganda tells you what to believe. Censorship tells you what to not even consider. But has this ever really been used? Am I just making a stink over some theoretical outcome? Consider the case of Israel. A day of research will make it pretty clear (if it isn't already) that Israel has done some pretty shitty things. It's oppressed the hell out of Palestinians, made the Middle East an even more dangerous place, and was founded by stealing land with the justification of a religious mandate. Not only that, but US citizens are forced to pay Israel $3,000,000,000 every year so that they can afford top of the line military equipment to use against kids throwing rocks. The state itself is a racist theocracy, and Muslims "lucky" enough to be on the right side of the border are second-class citizens who may lose their homes at any time if a Jewish citizen decides they want it. In addition, Israel is the only nation in the world allowed to maintain a stance of "ambiguity" about its nuclear weapon programs, which is an extremely irresponsible precedent to set. In addition, while the UN has tried to take actions against Israel for its human rights violations dozens of times, every attempt is blocked by Israel's benefactor; the US. [spoiler]The actual reasons for the US supporting Israel are long and complicated. The most convincing argument I've heard that I can present briefly is that Israel serves as a kind of "bait" for the US. Besides the obvious benefit of it being a country in the Middle East sympathetic to US interests in the region, if any nation attacks it, the US can justify invading that country. If you don't know why they'd do that, watch [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP7L8bw5QF4]this.[/url][/spoiler] So you'd think that Israel would be on the top of Left-Wings chopping block right? A theocracy based on an Abrahamic religion that's oppressing poor people? Could there be an easier target? Nope. In fact it's one of the toughest. Because as soon as you suggest that what Israel is doing is wrong, as soon as you suggest that the US shouldn't be giving it billions while its own cities fail, you're an anti-Semite. Every argument you could possibly make, no matter how much you research it is now null and void. You're a [url=http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law]-godwinslaw!-[/url], you're hitler, and you hate Jews. "Yeah well, antisemitism may be blown out of proportion, but that's all tied up in religious stuff anyways. Surely feminism could never be used for such purposes?" Look at the way Muslim women are presented in western media. Look especially at the videos from around 2001-2003. We are shown the veils they wear, and are told that this is a symbol of oppression, that we must save them from the evils of Islam. This is the same propaganda that Britain used to justify colonization during its reign, namely, "the white man needs to go save the brown woman from the brown man." Except this time, they actually got white women to chant along as well. Groups like FEMEN, completely ignorant of what the veil means to Islamic women (or that it changes between groups) condemn it as a sign of the patriarchy, and shame the women that wear them. Not to mention they conveniently ignore all the progress that Muslim feminists [url=http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2013/04/24/is-the-hijab-worth-fighting-over/the-arrogance-of-ignoring-muslim-feminism]have made[/url]. They instead focus on an article of clothing (that they ultimately wear for the same reason we wear what we wear; it's what we're culturally comfortable with), and in with an extremely ironic act submit themselves to the western male-dominated war machine. But if you bring this up, if you bring up that fact that many Muslim women continue to wear the veil even when they come to western society, if you bring up the possibility that they aren't all brainwashed and are capable of (and should be) choosing to wear what they want to wear, you're a misogynist. If you point out that feminists have been tricked into supporting wars of aggression, your viewpoint on anything isn't valid anymore. I've already gone on too long, but I wanted to make this point clear: you do more damage to yourself and make yourself easier to manipulate when you shut out an idea than when you consider it. A racist or misogynist statement will not hold up to scrutiny if that's really all it is. If you block it off, not only do you give a certain legitimacy to the idea, but you give others the opportunity to take advantage of this block. Thanks for reading this if you did.

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  • Edited by Fat Man 3000: 1/6/2014 8:01:40 PM
    I'll going to paraphrase what Ricky Gervais said. Everyone is entilted to their beliefs, and silencing viewpoints in the name of feelings isn't getting anyone anyway. I think your top paragraph best represents this [quote]]There are dozens of "progressive" groups trying to shut down certain words or viewpoints. While I've never shared their mindset, [b]I have to admit that very few of my Christian or Right-Wing friends can share their views without being labeled a racist or Luddite[b] and thus not worthy of listening to. It's even worse for my Muslim friends. Colleges, places where free-speech was once paramount, are becoming places of forced-conformity[/quote] I have bolded the most important part, you say people can't express their viewpoints without being labelled racist. But doesn't that inheritely mean they have racist viewpoints, and like Ricky Gervais said, these viewpoints don't have to be respected by people, especially if these viewpoints aren't educated in the slightest. [quote] and thus not worthy of listening to[/quote] People have the right to say their viewpoints, of course, but people also have a right to ignore their viewpoints.

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  • So here's a very disturbing example of what I was talking about in the beginning: [url]http://thefire.org/article/9865.html[/url]

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  • It's only made worse by the fact that science is now suffering from being "politically incorrect" when it does studies regarding sex or race.

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  • Wait i was expecting a shit post.What i got was a thought out informative Article.And i dont understand arent libral more sympathetic to muslims then most

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  • Thank you for linking this to me, it was a great read. It basically just took my thoughts and put them in super intelligent form.

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  • Edited by Bolt: 1/6/2014 7:54:27 PM

    Started a new topic: -----------(3 Replies))

  • Edited by Bolt: 11/11/2013 4:51:29 AM

    Started a new topic: ------(5 Replies))

  • I never understood why antisemitism is a thing - Racism is racism, trying to define one race's issues as more important than others, based solely on their race, is racist itself. And I absolutely agree; I'd like to say that I'm a left wing person, but there's so much hypocritical bullshit attached that it makes me wonder how they can say with a straight face that they're "progressive". And political correctness simply needs to die, it's not helping anyone.

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  • mmm, knowledge is Delicious to me.

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  • k.

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  • Too long; did not read OT: Yes, it is.

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  • [quote]Nope. In fact it's one of the toughest. Because as soon as you suggest that what Israel is doing is wrong, as soon as you suggest that the US shouldn't be giving it billions while its own cities fail, you're an anti-Semite. Every argument you could possibly make, no matter how much you research it is now null and void. You're a -godwinslaw!-, you're hitler, and you hate Jews.[/quote] dunno what university you're going to m8 defending israel is a good way to get people shouting at you in all the schools in my area

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  • Yummy post is yummy.

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  • I agree mostly with what you have said, including your stance on the burkha, but I think it's unfair to say that it's a feminist issue. Most opposition to burkhas comes from a political anti-multiculturalism standpoint, e.g. as in France, where they have an outright burkha/niqab ban.

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    • Can we save threads via the app?

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      • This is why you're my favorite poster

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        • Too long; made an effort to read and comprehend. inb4uberrustling

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          • Great read, I would say more if I could but this isn't an area that I can really elaborate more on clearly so I'll refrain from trying anything. [spoiler]I'm half curious what would happen if Jay saw this though....[/spoiler]

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            • Great post. What a shame the general public is too retarded/indoctrinated to see the truth. Even though I've been red-pilled, I doubt I'll ever find out just how deep the rabbit hole goes.

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            • 0
              [url=https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm]Indeed.[/url]

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            • Not sure what to add. The main problem in universities(if that is what this topic is about) is to accept all ideas yet still be free. The problem comes down to how much should we censor. If it is condoning violent actions then it should be stopped. If not then allow it. Let them insult as much as they care, people will need to grow up and learn to argue with them or ignore them. But here is a question i have for you. What is a university. A place to learn or a place to get a certificate to get a job. For me its the former due to the money making business. Before yes it was an institution of learning and that would be great for there to be arguments there but considering universities have change roles. Honestly i am not so sure.

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            • Edited by challengerX: 10/18/2013 3:56:15 PM
              I agree with everything except for the veil that Muslim women wear. While some choose to wear it, many are forced to, directly or indirectly. You've only ever met Western Muslims who have the freedoms that you have. Most women leaving an Arab country or Iran say they don't like to wear the veil, or wear it because their husband forces them to, or even worse, wear it for fear that they're losing their culture and religion by not wearing a simple piece of clothing. (And yes, I realize that you can say if it's a simple piece of clothing, what's the big deal? Well, the big deal is many are not given a choice.) Not only that, but in Iran, women were not required to wear it before Khomeini's dictatorship. (When Iran was a good country.) So what does that say about the veil to you? I'm sorry, but you're wrong about this.

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              • Good OP. *claps*

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                • This was a good read, thank you. I can't really add anything to this, sorry.

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                • I completely agree. Denying someone an opinion based on their background or privilege is ridiculous. You should accept or reject opinions based on their own merits (or the lack thereof).

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                  • I love the part about the Muslim veils. I wrote an essay about them in my sociology class, which I think is one of the best ones that I've written (and I got a 100% on it, too). Critical thinking is the best way to overcome problems where people might be offended or angered. If you take the time to think it through and can come up with good reasons why you're offended / should not be offended, then you can debate it out without the vitriol that so often comes with discussing sensitive topics.

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