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Edited by Recon Number 54: 3/6/2013 8:22:09 PM
11

Cigarettes -vs- eCigs

Yes, I know. Smoking is bad, mmmmkay. I understand that inhaling the particulate smoke of ANY burning substance is putting chemicals, and particles into your lungs. I also understand that the moment anyone makes a smoking topic there are two likely distractions: 1) It's just bad, people who do it are bad, and I love telling people that I am smarter than they are. 2) Smoke weed instead, it cures everything and I love telling people that I am smarter than they are. Please don't derail this in either of those two directions. I don't need to hear #1 and I will ban for #2 (you don't want to test me). My question is this. I know of a lot of people who DO smoke cigarettes. I used to myself, a long time ago and I was able to quit. But I am seeing more and more people using e-cigarettes (or "vaping" which I guess is the hipster term for it). I am pretty up to date on the physics, medical aspects, health risks, consequences etc. for cigarette smoking. However, I am not as well-versed or up-to-speed on vaping. From what I can tell, it is an atomizer that uses a liquid (of varying compositions and flavors) and the vapor is inhaled. Does anyone have any first or secondhand knowledge of this? Anyone smoke e-cigs? What are the positives, negatives, differences, etc. If you have reviews, data, links, I would appreciate it. But I would not appreciate this topic falling victim to distractions 1 OR 2. Thanks in advance.

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  • Necro

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  • I am also discovering a HUGE amount of regional variation as to the acceptance (both social and legal) regarding the topic of e-cigs. Both within the US and across Europe there appears to be a unique patchwork quilt of laws, practices and acceptability. I have heard that within Seattle, vaping an e-cig is illegal in public? [url=http://www.kirklandwa.gov/Assets/Parks/Parks+PDFs/ParkBoard/0+KIRKLAND+PARK+BOARD+PACKET+Mar+9+11+web2.pdf]This is the document that I snagged the image from[/url]. Isn't WA one of the two states that decriminalized.... well, that's just odd.

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  • Edited by Jessica: 3/5/2013 12:00:53 AM
    Sup. I was a smoker in my uni days, but quickly lost the joy of it once my time began to be structured around, you know, doing stuff, and meeting people responsible for paying you reeking of smoke generally doesn't go down well. So I decided to quit. Unfortunately, I ran into a couple of problems. I don't really want to quit. I enjoy smoking, particularly when I'm out drinking. So, my initial attempts to quit generally went well for a couple of weeks, then I'd go out and get drunk with friends (many of whom smoke) and inevitably end up smoking (drunken willpower is an oxymoron) and then wake up in the morning with a half-smoked pack of cigs on my desk and I'd pick them up and go "oh i'll just finish these off..." and before you know it I'm trying to cram two smokes into my fifteen minute morning break before legging it back upstairs to the office. Addiction's a bitch, isn't it? Through people at work, I was introduced to e-cigs. I was intrigued. Everyone who used them swore it let them completely kick the habit overnight. They got their sense of smell back. They could breathe. They didn't have to consume nicotine in cigarette-sized bursts. It was 1/10th the price. [And, perhaps most importantly, after one of our senior ops guys switched to them, vaping in the office suddenly became ok - GODSEND]. So, I decided to follow their example. They were right. All of it. Right. Literally overnight you can stop smoking. You just don't [i]want[/i] to smoke. And when you do it's like your first again - hacky, disgusting and nauseating. You remove all the obvious downsides to smoking without losing the pleasure of the habit, the occupation of your fingers, the slight rush of inhalation, the suppression of hunger, the social element of going outside and having a chat to all the other smokers. You're still addicted to nicotine, but you're no longer a smoker [and neither are you a slave to shockingly overpriced pharmaceutical stop-smoking-aids]. I started out using the ones you see in shops, the tiny batteries with one-use cartridges, and they're nice, but they're limited. The batteries clock in at something like 130mAh, the carts are only good for a day and while cheaper than cigs, they're still not cheap. You're also limited in terms of flavours - it's basically either "tobacco" [more like caramel - don't bother with these unless you find you really like them, you cannot reproduce the taste of tobacco without tobacco, nor would you want to] or mint. Since then I've switched to the very geek-friendly liquid versions, where you can have as large a battery as you please (mine are 1300mAh), you can have as large a tank as you please (1.6ml - enough for about 2 days) and you can vary the voltage/resistance etc. to produce the exact amount of smoke you want. Not to mention the flavours. Oh, lord, the flavours. In the short time since I switched, I've tried all sorts: apple, cherry, peppermint, orange, strawberry. All amazing. As long as the flavour is strong and generally sweet it works well, because of the composition of the base. The liquid versions are also a shit-tonne cheaper, especially if, through a bit of creative googling [or just pm me - i'll be happy to provide the link], you find the chinese wholesaler who actually produce these liquids for most of the retailers. They're more than willing to sell, even in small quantities, to international consumers. One of the big things for me is, once you've found the right vendor, the ability to specify the makeup of your product. If you're smoking cigarettes you smoke one at a time and a pack at a time. You can't really have half a cigarette and you can't really buy less than a pack. With e-cigs, I started on liquid at 36mg/ml (this is really high, twice the "normal" dose) because there's some question about the absorption of the nicotine from the vapour, and because I wanted to make it so if I did slip and have a real cig, it would do absolutely nothing for me [this worked, by the way, YMMV]. Now I'm on liquids at 12mg/ml, consuming an amount of nicotine equivalent to about 2/3 a pack of cigarettes per day. My next batch will drop down to 8mg/ml and so on and so forth. And the final thing, for me specifically, is I still go out and drink with my smoker friends and I almost always do end up smoking real cigarettes (just a few). The difference now is that I wake up, cough a load of phlegm up, think "What the -blam!- were you thinking", pick up my e-cig and vape away my day. Prior to that it would be a matter of waking up and thinking "-blam!- i really need a cig now", nipping to the shops and buying a pack, setting me back weeks. The liquids themselves [the liquids are also used in the cartridges - they just come as pre-soaked cotton] are, as far as I can ascertain (and as with all the narcotics I put my body through, I research them thoroughly) harmless. The active ingredient is obviously nicotine, which is itself potentially harmful, but the quantities involved are so small that the risk is effectively zero. The rest of the base is a mix of water and glycerine in some form (propylene glycol, vegetable glycerine etc.). These are common food additives that are categorised as "GRAS" - Generally Recognised As Safe, or in other words, we put so many tonnes of them through our body anyway we'd have spotted any problems by now so go ahead and load up on that shit. There is some question whether inhaling their vapour directly can be harmful (particularly with asthmatics), as it is certainly a very mild irritant when you start using it (this goes away after a couple of hours), but the vapour is also the stuff used in smoke machines and suchlike, so it's unlikely to pose a serious hazard. And, again, the amounts involved are small. The only big question mark is over the flavourings used. They're usually food additives, so safe in most terms, but no one's ever tested them for inhalation. It's unlikely to happen, but no one has ruled out the risk potential yet. Again, however, the amounts are tiny - 95%+ of the liquid is made up of the base, with the remainder being mostly nicotine. One thing is beyond a doubt, however. Whatever harm exists in electronic cigarettes, it is nothing compared to filling your lungs with arsenic, carbon monoxide, tar, formaldehyde, ammonia and benzene on a daily basis. Plus it's cheaper. Plus you don't smell.

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    • [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_cigarette]Here[/url] is a Wiki page on the subject. From what I see, it's basically a cigarette without the actual flame and smoke and tar, etc. However, there's not much else I know, just saying.

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      • Update: My wife has made the change from standard cigarettes to e-cigs (which I am treating as a positive step and on the road to her quitting). Based on the research that I've done so far, the elimination of her inhaling the particulate smoke and additional chemical additives in cigarettes is a profound improvement. Also, it appears that she has the ability to meter (and decrease over time) the amount of nicotine in the e-cigarettes (similar to the "step down" dosages of nicotine patches). Though my research on nicotine itself (when put aside from the other known carcinogens in tobacco smoke) is that it is a "mixed bag" of stimulant, addictive, beneficial and harmful effects. I can say that things certainly smell better without ashtrays or smoke around. Does anyone else have any personal or second-hand (pardon the pun) experience with "vaping" or e-cigarettes in general? I am still eager and interested to learn more.

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        • eCigs don't have the carbon fiber or whatever the hell it is that cut your lungs like cigarettes as far as I can tell. also, they don't taste like shit when you smoke them.

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        • I know some people who use them. All i know about them is they don't give you as good a fix as you get from regular cigarettes

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          • Edited by Sapid: 2/26/2013 2:06:23 AM
            I don't smoke but I see the eCig stuff in the mall all the time, that is all I really know. It might be my imagination but I still think its irritating to be around eCigs even without the smoke.

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          • Edited by Payola: 2/26/2013 1:59:33 AM
            One of my friends has switched to e-cigs and it seems to be going good thus far. I've also been told they have some pretty nice flavors. Try google if you want to know more.

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            • A few friends of mine have switched to e-cigs in order to help quit, one of which has been successful thus far. Occasionally they'll use them in public places, like bars/restaurants that don't allow smoking inside, and they'll get really strange looks. That's about all I know...

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              • Edited by SecondClass: 2/26/2013 1:49:54 AM
                jk didnt read the OP srry

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