Based

If you put the tinfoil hat on, this is exactly the kind of stuff that makes it feel like there is some hidden manipulation going on trying to keep people around a 50% win rate. I think a lot of Destiny PvP players have had nights like this. One night everything just works. Your shots register, people die when they should, you win fights you expect to win and you can play aggressively without constantly wondering what happened. Then another night it feels like a completely different game. You start shooting first, dump half an SMG mag into someone or land HC shots and somehow their shield barely moves, while you seem to die the second you see the first damage indicator. It can genuinely feel like you're playing by different rules than the other guy. And being wired with fast internet unfortunately doesn't really rule this stuff out in Destiny. There is still the whole P2P/networking side of the game, connections between different players, latency, damage registration and whatever else is happening behind the scenes. Your own connection can be perfectly fine and the match can still feel like garbage. I've also seen those really weird matches where your team is absolutely destroying the other team at first. Everything feels easy and you're thinking this is going to mercy. Then suddenly the entire match flips. Your team can't win a gunfight anymore, the other team turns into Crucible gods and you're getting deleted everywhere. Five minutes later you're wondering how the hell the same lobby became a completely different game. Spawns make it even worse. If your team loses map control or gets spread out, Destiny can put you into some absolutely horrible situations. You spawn away from everyone, try to get back to your team and run straight into two or three enemies who already control that side of the map. Then your teammates think you're running around alone when you're basically just trying to survive the spawn. Of course sometimes the explanation is much simpler: there are just insanely good players out there. If you get a top 1% player or two on the other team, you're going to lose fights where it feels like you had no chance at all. Personally I think it's all mixed together. Matchmaking feels random as hell, Destiny networking can be weird, spawns can screw you, abilities are flying everywhere and then you throw a couple of god-tier players into the middle of it all. So is Bungie secretly flipping a switch to make you lose? Probably not. Does Destiny sometimes make it feel exactly like that? Absolutely. It is what it is. Everything -blam!- in between.

Basically any SMG will win in close range against a 140 or 120 HC. Some SMGs lose to 180HC with perks to 3 tap. Imo, the best PVP SMGs are the following (in order): 1) Fast Talker 2) Shayuras Wrath / Unending Tempest 3) Immortal, Multimach, Submission, a couple others 4) Everything else Sorry I didnt list every SMG... Honestly there are too many good ones.

*dupe*

PvP is garbage overall and crutch guns mean more than actual skill in this game, thats why you always see mirror-match loadout bs and people doing the same broken combos just for cheap and easy kills. This game’s PvP is a joke at best, and not even a good one. I stopped giving a -BLAM!- about my KD anymore because this game is flooded with people who just want to do the cheesiest bs builds humanly possible. Trials? Oh dude, there’s a genuine reason as to why the LFG for Trials is so abysmally scarce; because this game has catered far too much to the people who whined and cried that it was “too hard” to actually apply themselves to the game. I kept up with 3.0 players just fine, proved to myself I can go Flawless several times and got everything I wanted out of this piece of garbage PvP dumpster fire. You want a game that has skilled PvP? Good luck, cheaters are everywhere and everyone is sweating like their mortgage depends on winning every match. People take video games like Destiny 2 far too serious and it makes it genuinely miserable for anyone who isn’t a hardcore sweat. The era of skilled PvP died a very long time ago, and I will never understand how the hell people can look at this game and go “Yeah, this takes real skill!” in 2026. I seen this coming [i]years[/i] ago too. People wanted to complain, and complain, and complain about every single minor inconvenience in this game’s PvP and now look at the state of it; you encounter the exact same broken builds every single time you launch anything in the Crucible tab. Why? Because it’s to the point where if you don’t use the absolute meta, then you’re gonna get your head shoved right into the mud and stomped to death by anyone who does. This game used to take skill but now it doesn’t. It’s gonna piss some people off to hear too, but it’s the genuine truth and everyone knows it except for the die-hard PvP community on this game. The community made it this way by complaining 24/7 and flooding the forums with bs, too. Then they stopped listening when they realized there is no making this community happy, too many people complain about trivial bs like “oh my gawd that gwenade hurt too much!” like- what the hell do you expect? For it to tickle your Cabals and you just walk it off? Anyway, game’s a joke and anyone who takes it seriously is a clown. That’s my hot-take.

yep... this is my experience as well just very inconsistent I've always called it out like the happy group and the bad group similar to what Freneti replied with... In the happy group I'm not even saying you win but you are able to have fun and play/compete you understand if the gun is not working for you or the strategy.. tactics you've chosen etc in the bad group... it makes me so upset... I have to pause to try to not just swear and say very bad things about Bungo... >> there is no time to play.. make decisions and it doesn't matter anyway... you are playing against people moving twice you're speed.. even if you exchange fire they have you within 2 bursts I 100% believe Bungie fully knows this.. I mean you just track KDA.. damage dealt vs others in the whole match.. you can see these outliers you can see cheaters or forget that label even.. those that are making the match bad for others (sometimes a whole team.. sometimes a stack).. they are out of the avg parameters and this should trigger a flag This is not to mention the weapons (I'm not even talking abilities here.. something simple like a weapon) that are creating this scenario. You can't tell me that Bungo and these POS players don't recognize that these weapons (specifically in 6s) are creating this situation (btw why in the absolute F are artifacts enabled in any PVP?)... I can go on and on... and I better stop.. cause it seriously pisses me off... and while I feel that way yes... there are still good matches... there is still fun and variety out there... but sometimes you get stuck in the bad group and I swear that keeps me from ever being a true Bungie fan.. I'll always remember because that bad experience is 10x more impactful than the good... and these behavioral scientist F's dont get that.

I think they limit your aim assist and bullet magnetism. It's why you feel like you should be doing more damage and kiling more because you actually are when it's on 'full' but then bungie knows you're going to keep playing so they limit it by 5 or 10%. Or maybe the game is just really shitty because they were always putting effort into other games or something and let everything go to -blam!-...

They use peer-to-peer connections between players, which can cause you to be slightly ahead or behind what others are seeing on their screen. Spawns can be bad when the opposing team is spread out across the map, or when they move quickly between areas as the game calculates where to spawn you. No spinfoil hats needed.

Combination of the hours that you play, win ratio , sbmm, etc etc. It can be that at one point of the day there are more players playing in you’re area and you’re closer to the host of the lobby, or maybe because of you’re internet you’re “the host”. Can also be if you’re having a great serieus of games and win % go’s up bungie puts you in more balance sbmm lobby’s to test if there systems are working correctly this feels for you that shots might not be connecting as great because the ppl you’re playing life on different continents. Also can be that you’re just having better days then other days we are still human. Etc etc. There are so many reason why this can be not even including you’re own fault. So would take it to personal. Hope this helps it you want I can look closer into you’re mm to help see what’s up. You have to take into account, is trials out ( most skilled players play that) so leaves controll less sweaty. Time of day. Combat rating , # win %, map rotation etc. Well hope this helps.

You have 7.3k hours in PVP and you're still surprised by this?

Haha. Welcome to Destiny 2 PvP. Get used to it, it's normal.

Range could be your problem. Another could just be your crit accuracy or they're playing corners. Otherwise, if they're slide shooting you from around corners and then openly engaging you or something like that, then they already shot you once before you could see them probably. As for smgs that should be able to hold their own? Antedate is probably the best feeling modern SMG currently. Immortal with Elemental Honing. Maybe Barrow Dyad with target lock (one of if not the highest aim assist of all smgs). Whatchamacallit with Headseeker and Gear Shift. Unending Tempest can get Target Lock as well as near maxed range and stability. Prolonged Engagement and Fast Talker are probably the best lightweight smgs currently. There's plenty to try.