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Edited by TheLastNerf: 4/19/2024 11:40:11 AM
17

Scouts (and other primaries) Need Hand Cannon Type Buffs

Currently, Scouts are one of the weakest primary weapon types in the game, arguably only tied with Pulses. Despite sharing many of the same flaws and drawbacks that HCs suffer from, and several of their frames even firing at the same RPM, Scouts are much less viable in pretty much every facet but range. Based on some limited testing I performed, [spoiler]same frame RPM, same slot (and the same damage type for kinetics), same power level, no specs or damage perks/boosts, within Hydroponics Delta LS. 120, 150, 180s tested, barring exotics of course)[/spoiler] Scouts of matching RPMs to HCs are doing, on average, around 50% less damage to Minors, and over 100% less damage to majors, which is extremely detrimental to the weapon type. You don't need to stand at range, really anywhere in the game, just to do significantly less damage than a HC to rank and file enemies, and entirely inconsequential damage to tougher targets in comparison to a Heavy or Special weapon. Of course, Hand Cannons did only somewhat recently receive massive buffs against minor and elite enemies, and while I don't think Scouts should necessarily be the absolute best weapon type for nearly everything as they were in D1, it would be great to have them, Pulses, Bows, and even Autos feel viable in more content, especially end game. I think at least a 30% buff to Minors and 50-70% to majors (or maybe just a general buff independent of these) could be enough to make Scouts feel better to use in most places.
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  • The further you are from your ennemies, the lower the dmg. Thats why sidearms and smg have the best dps of primaries. And bows/scouts have the lowest. The more risk you take, the more dmg you deal. Thats the design philosophy they want

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  • You’re overlooking the obvious. Scouts must remain weak in D2 because of the Bow archetype. The moment Scouts receive some love then Bows becomes the weak sister. Bungie brought us Bows with D2 and have steadfast never wanted Scouts to outshine them.

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    • Edited by Zodleon: 4/19/2024 1:43:14 AM
      Bungie has outright said they don't want scouts to be the best option in almost any scenario. If only scouts received these buffs, they would be the best. If everything received these buffs, we'd be on the exact same situation we are now, where they are near the worst by comparison Scout metas are boring. they serve a specialized purpose, its safe, consistent damage from far away, that's enough imo.

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      • Edited by La Blue Girl: 4/20/2024 5:05:06 AM
        Guiding sight and dead man's archetype still seem pretty strong. I'm seeing more people rock MIDA too.

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        • 6
          Guardian,Archon Of Light
          Guardian,Archon Of Light

          Blade Of The Traveler - old

          I am a scout rifle nut, I don't like scout rifles...I freaking love them But I have accepted that Scouts will never be what they are in D1, in D2. These sandbox managers don't believe in long range engagements(atleast in PvE) , that's why snipers still suck, and hell will freeze over before we see icebreaker in D2 or D3 They want us using autos, smgs, gls, fusions, swords(although sometimes they nerf them to), HCs Bows actually fulfill the scout rifle role better Make Scouts Great Again [spoiler]but im not going to hold my breath[/spoiler]

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          • People saw the title and their knee jerk reaction is thinking this was meant for pvp.

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            • Bungie saw what high range primaries being good meant for the game and have done everything in their power to stop it. It’s the same for snipers. Safety = less DPS. Range is safety. In D1, a scout with shoot to loot was one of the best primaries for a nightfall. Hung Jury was the best primary in the game for PvE for almost a year too! Bungie uses DPS differences and objectives to move players out of safety. Scouts and Bows having low DPS is part of that. So yeah. Scouts will always have lower damage and I don’t see that changing.

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            • Apparently you didn’t play trials on multiplex, if you did, you wouldn’t have posted this.

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              • Bungie saw what D1 Scouts did back in day and said they would never that powerful again. So far, it’s held true during D2’s lifespan.

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              • Honestly, scouts only have scopes over hand cannons (save for Erina's Vow, which is in dire need of a buff).

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              • The best scouts have felt in d2, imo, is about when Randy’s first came out. Especially in SotP, that raid made scouts actually feel useful when dealing with the sniper vandals.

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              • Scouts are already solid weapons, its the maps which don’t support them. If you buffed them it would be gamebreaking

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                • Damage buff to scouts and pulses? Sure. But I have a knit pick with this suggestion. First, scouts and pulses are MEANT to be weapons you stand at range with. You're not just rushing in head first like that old WoW clip. Second: IF scouts and pulses want to stay competitive, low base range stat weapons need to be buffed either significantly or slightly. Take my Guardian Games Strand Scout that is fairly balanced. It's current range is 45, with a range Masterwork, Corkscrew rifling and Tactical Mag. 45 range is arguably pitiful on a scout, and I admit Accurized rounds WOULD help, but that's the issue here. You shouldn't NEED to rely on a magazine perk or ranged barrel to help, it SHOULD come with an already decent Range stat. Third, Hand Cannons are balanced the way they are for multiple reasons. Hand Cannons are basically real world revolvers. The most they could probably hit is about 50 meters give or take. This makes sense as pistols aren't really ranged weapons anyway, and Bungie has to try and balance that against all of our current weapons, so it makes sense to give them more damage and they know it can't exactly keep up with ranged weapons in terms of competitiveness inside PvE. Not to mention the low magazine capacity. In conclusion, yes, Scouts and Pulses SHOULD be buffed, but give them more range to combat range drop off, and MAYBE very SLIGHT damage tweaks under the hood to make them feel like they actually improved.

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                • Edited by joachim3611: 4/19/2024 9:22:14 AM
                  Imo every primary could recieved this buff because it's weird that only Handcanons recieved this buff Like, if they're supposed to be hard hitting machine then why not Specials ? Why not every "small mag" primary ?

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                • Edited by Kiro - 13: 4/19/2024 6:42:39 AM
                  Aggressive Burst pulse rifles are also hurting really bad. You need 8 crits aka 100% accuracy for both bursts to kill 8 resilience value targets, 7 crits 1 body means they live.... [b]Proposed update:[/b] •[i]Increase Aggressive Burst pulse rifle critical hit damage by 7%(30 damage to 32 damage).[/i] •[i]Increase Aggressive Burst pulse rifle body shoot damage by 6%(15 damage to 16 damage)[/i] This will change the optimal ttk to 7 crits 1 body(240 damage).

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                • Edited by ParrotTom: 4/19/2024 3:37:54 AM
                  I would guess the reason why scouts are weaker is because they have like 10X the range, much more manageable recoil thanks to animations and/ or models, and also have like 50-100% more ammo. If scouts should be as strong as hand cannons, then hand cannons should be just as easy to use, effectively meaning either all of them are converted to precision frames (keeping their current ROF), or they should all get like 30 extra stability to help with some weapons having so much recoil, bad sights, or such clunky models that you spend just as much time trying to find the target or the sights of the gun as you spend shooting at it. Hell, idk about current sandbox, but I'm pretty sure scouts were already stronger in PVP. More specifically: 140s and 150 HCs require 3 crits to kill even at 0 resilience whereas 150 scouts I think can do it up to T4 resilience 180 scouts required 2 crits and 2 body to kill long the HCs got that buff 260 scouts I think only needed like 3 or 4 crits and 2 body 200 scouts require 3 crits 1 body I think And 120 scouts/ HCs require 2 crits 1 body. Easier, generally safer, and kill just as quickly in PVP. They don't need those advantages in PvE.

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                  • We have been sniping mobs with HC sidearm and smgs for years now, and the fact bungie and bad players keep thinking scouts are safe that's why they suck, snipers are in the same boat, but yet like I said we have been sniping mobs with smgs HC and sidearms for YEARS Yeppers safe👍

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