[quote][quote]The ease of use is too high. They shoot too far. The ttk is too fast for this range. [b]They are free.[/b] Peacekeepers was a necessary change, and yet, Submachine gun players will still continue to find great success with little investment. How many months will we need to take to assess what has been painfully evident for so long now? I know your fear of HC/Auto and Side Arm encroaching upon a squished Sub archetype. I trust the talented team is intelligent enough to whittle it down to a better place. As it stands, they are still in too powerful a state. [spoiler]You might argue the specifics offenders, Unending Tempest, Immortal, and Shayura's account for a smaller portion of each meta list than their surrounding weapon archetype competitors that bleed into their ideal engagement range. This is true. And yet, throwing on a Sub in a rumble match means working a lot less to find success in a shorter amount of time, without needing perfect precision for each kill. Save Ace of Spades which remains exceptionally strong but slept on due to its recoil. [/spoiler] [spoiler]Everything is slowly returning to a much better state after a year of... I don't know... But much of the damage has been done. Hopefully people will return for the Final Shape and a Crucible with fresh maps and won't be inundated with threadlings, excessive clones, and subs. Looking forward to the nerfs. [/spoiler][/quote] Tldr I don't like something so let's -blam!- it for everyone.[/quote] The change should be subtle. I don't want them destroyed. Just the specifically mentioned ones to have a reduced range or increased recoil. Faster damage fall off. If you look, Unending Tempest completely dominates Rumble for the reasons cited.

[quote][quote][quote]The ease of use is too high. They shoot too far. The ttk is too fast for this range. [b]They are free.[/b] Peacekeepers was a necessary change, and yet, Submachine gun players will still continue to find great success with little investment. How many months will we need to take to assess what has been painfully evident for so long now? I know your fear of HC/Auto and Side Arm encroaching upon a squished Sub archetype. I trust the talented team is intelligent enough to whittle it down to a better place. As it stands, they are still in too powerful a state. [spoiler]You might argue the specifics offenders, Unending Tempest, Immortal, and Shayura's account for a smaller portion of each meta list than their surrounding weapon archetype competitors that bleed into their ideal engagement range. This is true. And yet, throwing on a Sub in a rumble match means working a lot less to find success in a shorter amount of time, without needing perfect precision for each kill. Save Ace of Spades which remains exceptionally strong but slept on due to its recoil. [/spoiler] [spoiler]Everything is slowly returning to a much better state after a year of... I don't know... But much of the damage has been done. Hopefully people will return for the Final Shape and a Crucible with fresh maps and won't be inundated with threadlings, excessive clones, and subs. Looking forward to the nerfs. [/spoiler][/quote] Tldr I don't like something so let's -blam!- it for everyone.[/quote] The change should be subtle. I don't want them destroyed. Just the specifically mentioned ones to have a reduced range or increased recoil. Faster damage fall off. If you look, Unending Tempest completely dominates Rumble for the reasons cited.[/quote] The real issue is something else will become meta and the cycle begins again. You can't keep nerfing stuff. Just learn to counter.

[quote][quote][quote][quote]The ease of use is too high. They shoot too far. The ttk is too fast for this range. [b]They are free.[/b] Peacekeepers was a necessary change, and yet, Submachine gun players will still continue to find great success with little investment. How many months will we need to take to assess what has been painfully evident for so long now? I know your fear of HC/Auto and Side Arm encroaching upon a squished Sub archetype. I trust the talented team is intelligent enough to whittle it down to a better place. As it stands, they are still in too powerful a state. [spoiler]You might argue the specifics offenders, Unending Tempest, Immortal, and Shayura's account for a smaller portion of each meta list than their surrounding weapon archetype competitors that bleed into their ideal engagement range. This is true. And yet, throwing on a Sub in a rumble match means working a lot less to find success in a shorter amount of time, without needing perfect precision for each kill. Save Ace of Spades which remains exceptionally strong but slept on due to its recoil. [/spoiler] [spoiler]Everything is slowly returning to a much better state after a year of... I don't know... But much of the damage has been done. Hopefully people will return for the Final Shape and a Crucible with fresh maps and won't be inundated with threadlings, excessive clones, and subs. Looking forward to the nerfs. [/spoiler][/quote] Tldr I don't like something so let's -blam!- it for everyone.[/quote] The change should be subtle. I don't want them destroyed. Just the specifically mentioned ones to have a reduced range or increased recoil. Faster damage fall off. If you look, Unending Tempest completely dominates Rumble for the reasons cited.[/quote] The real issue is something else will become meta and the cycle begins again. You can't keep nerfing stuff. Just learn to counter.[/quote] I've been here for every meta change. You're not telling anyone anything they can't determine for themselves. Thanks for your input. Subs need to be nerfed. It will come.

[quote][quote][quote][quote][quote]The ease of use is too high. They shoot too far. The ttk is too fast for this range. [b]They are free.[/b] Peacekeepers was a necessary change, and yet, Submachine gun players will still continue to find great success with little investment. How many months will we need to take to assess what has been painfully evident for so long now? I know your fear of HC/Auto and Side Arm encroaching upon a squished Sub archetype. I trust the talented team is intelligent enough to whittle it down to a better place. As it stands, they are still in too powerful a state. [spoiler]You might argue the specifics offenders, Unending Tempest, Immortal, and Shayura's account for a smaller portion of each meta list than their surrounding weapon archetype competitors that bleed into their ideal engagement range. This is true. And yet, throwing on a Sub in a rumble match means working a lot less to find success in a shorter amount of time, without needing perfect precision for each kill. Save Ace of Spades which remains exceptionally strong but slept on due to its recoil. [/spoiler] [spoiler]Everything is slowly returning to a much better state after a year of... I don't know... But much of the damage has been done. Hopefully people will return for the Final Shape and a Crucible with fresh maps and won't be inundated with threadlings, excessive clones, and subs. Looking forward to the nerfs. [/spoiler][/quote] Tldr I don't like something so let's -blam!- it for everyone.[/quote] The change should be subtle. I don't want them destroyed. Just the specifically mentioned ones to have a reduced range or increased recoil. Faster damage fall off. If you look, Unending Tempest completely dominates Rumble for the reasons cited.[/quote] The real issue is something else will become meta and the cycle begins again. You can't keep nerfing stuff. Just learn to counter.[/quote] I've been here for every meta change. You're not telling anyone anything they can't determine for themselves. Thanks for your input. Subs need to be nerfed. It will come.[/quote] People have been complaining since destiny was a thing. This why we can't have nice things. Also you want to screw pve because you lose against a weapon in pvp. Selfish.