{{
`${userDetail.user.displayName}${userDetail.user.cachedBungieGlobalDisplayNameCode ? `#${standardizeBungieGlobalCode(userDetail.user.cachedBungieGlobalDisplayNameCode)}` : ""}`}}
{{getUserClans()}}
Edited by Hawpy:
12/4/2023 1:45:57 AM
7
It wasn't Ophidian Aspect's fault that people kept walking into melee range and being surprised when they get hit by a melee.
That didn't stop people complaining about them until they got a nerf. Down-playing the issue because of your own biases doesn't make it any less of an issue to the unbiased player. It was never "hurr durr i can't look up", it was the huge cost-free upgrade to your movement abilities that nothing else could come close to, the unpredictable change of direction, and the ability to not be punished for bad plays because you always have the speed to get away.
It is evidence enough of how good they are that Bungie "keep nerfing them time after time" and they are still the most-used Hunter Exotic for PvP. If they can survive that many nerfs and still be on top, surely that speaks volumes about how good they were before any of that? Or is the reality that none of the nerfs have been significant enough to warrant any valid complaints and the Hunters who use them have been exaggerating it?
English
-
Ah yes, me walking into range, not like the warlock goes mach 10 around the map to shotgun melee with ophidians. They were a problem and got dealt with appropriately.
-
Edited by Hawpy: 12/4/2023 2:49:36 AMThe thought process you went through is exactly what many people think/thought about Stompies, which is one of the points I'm trying to make. Trying to understate how good an item is out of self-interest isn't going to fool anyone into thinking they're not problematic, nor is blaming everything on the other person in an engagement going to distract people from the Exotic's effects at play. Stompies have historically been just as much of a problem and were years overdue for a nerf by the time they actually received one. If this change kills them, good riddance. They were the top choice for Hunters of all skill levels in PvP for 5 years, that's long enough.
-
Ophidian's Aspects and Stompeez are two completely different issues. One literally desynced the game and made someone untrackable because they were teleporting all over the screen due to the lunge ranges, the other just makes the person move faster without any gamebreaking issues. Extended melee ranges need to get removed on all classes because of the desync issue it presents. Ophidian still kept their strong handling and reload boosts without any drawbacks, which is great. But comparing something that doesn't break the game's functionality to something that does is really short-sighted.
-
Again, that's understating the effects. Stompies didn't just "make the person move faster". That belies the large momentum gains. You change direction faster, you are harder to track - especially on controller, it's easier to reach advantageous positions before your opponents and easier to escape from bad situations. Until the nerf that tied it to having a full Dodge, these benefits were active 100% of the time and are achieved simply by playing the way you normally would - running, jumping, sliding, shooting. They were/still are top for a reason. I don't deny that the Ophidian Aspect melee rubber-banding was annoying, and the item has survived just fine without that effect. I like to think there is a general begrudging acceptance that some nerf was deserved. The same can be said for pretty much every Exotic that dominated PvP for a time - Antaeus, OEM, Renewal Grasps, YAS and so on - but Stompies users seem to be in denial of the fact that they caused problems and were worthy of adjustment.
-
[quote]you are harder to track - especially on controller[/quote] Harder to track on a controller, literally sounds like a skill issue. Calm down, hit your shots. The difference with prenerf ophids, is that it didn't matter how good your aim was. The rubberbanding made into impossible. The increased movement just makes it harder. [quote]it's easier to reach advantageous positions before your opponents and easier to escape from bad situations[/quote] They're legit supposed to be the agile class. Class identity man. It's not like the other classes don't have movement exotics or abilities either. Transversives, Dunemarchers are two exotics. Icarus Dash for Warlocks. Thruster Pack and Shoulder Charges for Titans. Not to mention, the other two classes are supposed to have different playstyles to Hunters. So there's the reason to why they don't have much movement abilities because Hunters are supposed to be the fast and agile. And before you say that's its harder to kill said hunters with all their movement on their side, take a look at restoration warlocks and overshield titans. They don't need an exotic for that.
-
What I said about tracking is not affected by skill. It is harder to track a faster moving target than it is a slow one. This is common sense. If you think the only solution is to slow your own TTK to ensure you hit a shot, while the other person doesn't need to, then that's a balance issue on its own. On class identity, the 3.0 subclasses have definitely blurred the boundaries between them. People say Hunters are supposed to be the fast class but are slower in a straight line than the others. This overlooks Hunters having the best movement kit for close play. They have easily the best jump for that, every subclass has Dodge and 3 of them have a dive manoeuvre. Icarus Dash and Thruster are limited to one subclass each. Void Warlock has Blink, which comes with its own set of problems, but Arc Hunter has it too. Every class has Strand Grapple but Hunters have the easiest time using it. Stompies exist on top of these abilities and have no subclass limitations. I've had this debate countless times already, and it always ends the same way. Stompies users know exactly why they use them and why they're opposed to any nerds, and I can assure you it's more than just preference.
-
If you really think tracking has nothing to do with skill, then there's your first issue. Sure the movement gives an advantage, but so does legit any other exotic. The advantages stompees give is by far more counterable than say prenerf antaeus and YAS. However those got left in their state for significantly longer than stompies did. Yes it's harder to track, yes we may use it because of it. But at the same time, there's a lot of worse exotics that hunters have that give much bigger advantages. Some are still out of band like Wormhusk Crown, but bungie proceeds to focus on the movement exotic as if its the middle child of the family. A overshield titan and Wormhusk Crown hunter are so much harder to beat than a stompies hunter, regardless of whether you're hitting your shots or not. Because they slower their TTKs whereas stompies moves more eratically to not get hit. But if you hit your shots on a stompies, the TTK remains unchanged. The same can't be said on Wormhusk or OS.
