Unstop on Malf was pretty dumb and random. It works 3x better on overload when it’s overload HC mod. Unstop on Bastion is 100% useless, because bastion itself is uselss, and does comedic dmg in GMs.

Yup they do. Horrible implementation and an even worse decision to permanently keep them in the game since shadowkeep in 2019. They should have been sunset after year 3 imo. But hey Bungies reaction to us hating champions was making us kill 50 champs for seasonal quest progression and then 2 weeks later another like 30 champ kills for a necessary weekly challenge. Not to mention the stun champs challenge. Almost feels like Bungie is acting like a little stubborn kid that tries to enforce their wishings and pov that much, that they try to piss off their players at the absolute maximum instead of listening to what THEY want. But hey we are just paying customers, who cares what we want right?

Once the anti-champ mod is unlocked on the artifact, it should just be in effect. No equipping, no bullshit. Yes you still have to use whatever the seasonal favored weapons are, but you never have to mess up your build for a certain activities

Replace all champions with ultra's. And all hive champions with lucent hive.

Champions are the dumbest thing they ever introduced to destiny

I haven't been able to find my original post on this. I guess I never sent it. Anyways, here's an idea for a possible non-build-destroying solution. Instead of anti-champ mods being armor mods, make them weapon mods... of sorts. Hear me out. For each weapon archetype, when you unlock the mod in the artifact, it will be available slot in as a weapon mod. Inserting an anti-champion mod [i]will[/i] refund consumable mods. Better yet, just give anti-champ mods a different slot. Here's the kicker. Instead of an energy cost, they have a calibration cost. (Calibration only progresses once the respective mod is unlocked) That is, before you can insert an anti-barrier mod into an auto rifle, for instance, you would have to get 10 rapid kills with that specific auto rifle for the season. Objectives for exotic weapons would be slightly higher (say, 15 or 20 rapid kills on an auto rifle, such as Monte Carlo). Unstoppable Shotgun has 3 energy, so it would require a few more kills -- say, 20 kills with a pellet shotgun, 10-15 precision kills with a slug. Anti-barrier Sniper has 6 energy (because it's a really strong mod), so its objective might be 25 long-range precision final blows. The seasonal calibration for each weapon would be manageable -- no more than a bounty's worth of investment. For ability anti-champ mods (this is where it gets kind of interesting) they would be inserted in the slot for a fragment. Calibration goals would between 20-30 relevant final blows. One small kink: if anti-champ mods are attached to weapons instead of armor, then there needs to be a way for this to work across characters. One way would be that when you unlock a champion mod, it is unlocked for all characters (using one unlock from each). A slightly more viable option is for the mod to simply not work until unlocked. Oe note on seasonal calibration: once a certain weapon is calibrated, it need not be calibrated again on any character for the rest of the season. One further possible rework for anti-champ mods is for them to have effects in PvP. For instance, Overload Rounds already remove the Restoration x2 buff from opposing Guardians (though not Restoration x1 for some reason). Perhaps after further calibration, the mod would apply a relevant debuff -- Overload would delay/slow healing and ability regen for a short time, Unstoppable would have an effect similar to weakening/suppressing but much shorter (nonrefreshable), anti-barrier would simply pierce through overshields, Super DR, etc. for the first few shots (yeah, this one needs revision). Perhaps does extra damage to Guardians who have just activated a class or super ability? Have extra knockback? Pierce barricades? Ricochet? Flinch more? isk what to do with barrier tbh... Maybe this PvP rework is too strong (heck, it's waaaaaay too strong. This would totally change the way the PvP meta works, maybe permanently.) but on the whole this would certainly solve the problems put forth in the OP. It would still encourage players to expand their playstyle without forcing them to conform to arms-mod-less builds. I, for one, am fine with the current champion system. It needs work, but I do like the way it encourages you to use weapons other than what you normally would. But I think this rework I've described would be a happy middle ground. Tell me what you think!

Completely agreed

If champions are gonna stay as a system, I'd like it if the enemy type themselves actually got a dedicated rework. There've been practically no changes to them mechanically ever since their introduction, barring bug fixes (which I cannot remember any direct fixes at that), and they've gotten incredibly stale after nearly 3 years. Heck, the only genuinely unique mechanics they have are the barrier shields and stun mechanic. Everything else is just their normal powers juiced up to 11, or just no changes at all. They're uninteresting, unengaging, and are only threatening in higher end content because of the other modifiers rather than their own abilities. In contrast, this is why people have had such positive reception to the recent Hive Lightbearers, since they're a break from the mold- even if it's only restricted to three enemy types; hopefully the Tormentors follow suit. That said though, the worst part about them has always been the mods more than anything. The mods shouldn't be mandatory to stop them in their tracks. They should be like raid mods where they grant an additional bonus when you use/stack them, but can be completely ignored in favor of more optimal (or just more fun) builds. As a result, the seasonal artifact should [i]encourage[/i] use of certain mods, rather than dictate them outside of specific exotics.

When you couple this with the way some GMs are, it becomes annoying. Looking at the LFG and it’s nothing but people demanding invis Hunter for Lightblade, well Warlock for Exodus, stasis Warlock for Glassway, etc. The current champ mod system just makes the meta even more rigid for endgame stuff that already is rigid for other reasons. Too many things don’t have general challenge. They are challenging for very specific reasons and so they require very specific things to counter it. Wish it was more generalized across the board so people could use what they like want, within reason of course.

Imho “build” is a very heavy/big word when it comes to describing options in Destiny. There really is no depth other than stats optimization around a specific exotic armor. I mean, regenerating abilities faster can’t really be described as a build, nor is using charge+damage mods that yield some 20% increase in dmg. If I can be honest, these are mostly excuses we tell ourselves to grind more of the same. A “build” is something that will work in synergy with other builds to tackle content that would otherwise largely be insurmontable. In Destiny, whatever content can largely be beaten with blue gears, no exotic. We all want to look at our toons and feel like they’re at the best of what they can be, but we seriously have no need for any of that now that this game is an artefact/overpower grind fest.

True. Champions are cool and was a new way to tackle enemies. The problem is them being everywhere and oversaturated end game.. Either dial it down. Give us many more ways to tackle them with personal builds in mind. Or make champion mods an unlock rather than a mod and give us more variety each season.

Yup, Champs are fine. Making us remove actual glove mods to equip the mods that make the gun they force us to use do the thing that gun does is redundant. If I have to use X Y or Z in order to do the thing, just make X Y or Z do the thing. Why isn't equipping the required gun enough? Why equip something else to make the required gun do what it does?

Yup you hit the nail on the head, many of us have been discussing this issue for a while now, I hope they do something about it.

It wouldn't be so bad if they would just give us loadout tabs in game. I hate switching out mods to the point where I don't anymore, with enough firepower you can take out champions without them.

You can use your builds in other activities that don’t have champions too. I for one see no problem built crafting for gm and using anti champion weapons. I don’t have any problem using any build I want to use in any GM. Though I do find barrier sniper to cost way too much, 3 would be better. I don’t like champions in raids though, that is one place I’d rather not see them.

I’m finding arc Titan with HoIL is melting champs and bosses alike. Super fun times with Arc 3.0.