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Edited by GIVE EM HELLBOY:
9/17/2022 2:00:08 AM
27
Its a shame that certain aspects of classes are rendered useless in this game. If this was Warframe, you could do anything with Chaos Reach and be fine. Bungo could learn a thing or a thousand from that game eh?
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if this was warframe ther wouldnt be much point in any of it. That game is fun, but its a mess of a sandbox.
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Thank you for proving that there would be a point.
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Warframe is a mess of feature and power creep. Half the game is way too easy because of the massively bloated numbers.
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Edited by GIVE EM HELLBOY: 9/17/2022 11:55:03 AMYou have to earn that right. At least that is something to work towards in that game. Power actually matters, unlike in D2 where everything remains stagnant.
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power actaully matters in warframe.. oh jeez you mean the time you waited on an artificial timer to obtain that power matters? warframe is a game of concepts with everything being thrown at the wall dude
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[quote]you mean the time you waited on an artificial timer to obtain that power matters?[/quote] Literally what a ton of games are nowadays so I fail to see your point.
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The leveling system of Warframe was THE MAIN REASON why I quit the game. Sorry, but I don't like to be forced to play a -blam!- ton of guns I hate and don't like just to unlock new guns to play. I also don't like to reset my Warframe with a Forma several times, just to only have all my mods screwed over, having to re-slot them all, forcing me also to make pictures of the mod loadout BEFORE the process just to not lose the overview.
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Yeah, I can see why Mastery could be a negative. For me it isnt, as it pushes me to try new options. Hence the systems name, Mastery. I dont agree with forma being a negative. Its fairly easy to level and the build crafting is very modular. Hell you can even take another Warframes ability through the Hellminth system and apply it to another. Thats way better than this game imo.
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Edited by Talia Sendua: 9/17/2022 4:12:47 PM[quote]Hell you can even take another Warframes ability through the Hellminth system and apply it to another. Thats way better than this game imo.[/quote] That's literally removing class uniqueness from a game
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[quote]That's literally removing class uniqueness from a game[/quote] Maybe if you could change every single ability as you see fit. But that isnt a reality. You can only get one subsumed ability from another frame. Not every ability can be subsumed. So a Warframe will keep 75% of its core identity. And considering Destiny is doing much worse in destroying class identity, I fail to see how this makes Warframe the lesser game.
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[quote] And considering Destiny is doing much worse in destroying class identity, I fail to see how this makes Warframe the lesser game.[/quote] Destiny isn't destroying class identity. Classes are an illusion anyways. In the lore all Lightbearers can learn the same abilities and more. Felwinter did use Shoulder Charge... AS A WARLOCK. We should be actually happy that Bungie is changing the gameplay to fit the story as it was originally intended.
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[quote]Destiny isn't destroying class identity. Classes are an illusion anyways. In the lore all Lightbearers can learn the same abilities and more. Felwinter did use Shoulder Charge... AS A WARLOCK. We should be actually happy that Bungie is changing the gameplay to fit the story as it was originally intended.[/quote] Ah so its ok if Destiny does it but not Warframe. Because of the lore... Gotcha. Well considering the Helminth does that in the lore of the game, its all good. You shouldnt be complaining.
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the warframe followers have areal chip on their shoulder. all becasue they wont buff chaos reach by 30% or make the game as equally pointless as warframes mess of a sandbox.
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Sounds like you just hate objectively better games.
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In that case it is also ok. You just didn't say that in your original comment. Next time put the relevant information first maybe.
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Are you ok? How is the lore noteworthy to the mechanics of the game, in the context of a comparison of mechanics? I just think youre stumbling over your own logic.
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[quote]How is the lore noteworthy to the mechanics of the game, in the context of a comparison of mechanics?[/quote] A game that has both lore and gameplay working "hand in hand" is a game that sticks to principles and tries to be a product of continuity of each aspect. The Subclass reworks didn't reduce or destroy class identity in the slightest and rather enhance it. Or should I, as a Titan, go complain that Warlocks "destroyed Titan class identity" with getting in-air dodge? ;)
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Edited by GIVE EM HELLBOY: 9/17/2022 5:13:59 PM[quote]A game that has both lore and gameplay working "hand in hand" is a game that sticks to principles and tries to be a product of continuity of each aspect. The Subclass reworks didn't reduce or destroy class identity in the slightest and rather enhance it. Or should I, as a Titan, go complain that Warlocks "destroyed Titan class identity" with getting in-air dodge? ;)[/quote] Lore should not be an excuse for poor features. A game built on class identity should retain it to a certain extent. Ill forgive if classes are able to share one or two features across the board. But, the 3.0 classes killed a ton of that, more than Warframe did. All classes have access to the same grenades and previous classes signature abilities are being copy catted or outright given to other classes. So saying the reworks didnt reduce or destroy identity, but enhance it, is a bit far fetched. Technically speaking, Warlocks getting the air dodge when Titans had them in D1 is robbing class identity. It was literal robbery, Titans lost it while the other gained. Thats a valid criticism!
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another forums andy comment though titans had an exoitc which gave them an in air dodge in a game that was on PS3 It wasnt their class indentity it was a tool used by that class and wasnt even brought into the game until TTK. Sorry but you are complaining about warlocks CLASS indentity and class abilites focusing about in air movement something they are better at than any other class, WHILE trying to say classes dont have any idnetity anymore(*and complaing about twilight garrison) This is inconsisent
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Im not even gonna bother responding to this. You clearly dont understand what class identitiy is.
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also it isnt far fetched its the reality we live in a solar hammer titan with sunspots before 3.0 did one thing, throw hammers. make sunspots. the build diversity is a lot freer now, sunspots can be created multiple ways, while using other hammer super forms. the same with void and arc yall are just bugging, the class identity is STRONGER now than it has ever been. Hunters are masters of Invis and steath buffing on void, titans couldnt even attempt such a thing. even though invis is available. I understand your complaints but they arent founded in any snese of reality. the buid game in destiny has gotten stronger, and no it isnt as outlandish as warframe, i hope it never gets that way. That would be unbalanced to a higher degree, and trivialise the game.
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[quote]All classes have access to the same grenades and previous classes signature abilities are being copy catted or outright given to other classes.[/quote] Titan Void Spike grenade from Defender was given to Hunters in D1 TTK with Nightstalker Subclass. Warlock Vortext grenade was given to Hunters in D1 TTK with Nightstalker Subclass. Hunter Incendiary grenade was given to Titans in D1 TTK with Sunbreaker Subclass. Warlock Fusion grenade was given to Titans in D1 TTK with Sunbreaker Subclass. Titan Pulse grenade was given to Warlocks in D1 TTK with Stormcaller Subclass. Hunter Arc Bolt grenade was given to Warlocks in D1 TTK with Stormcaller Subclass. Even back in D1 Bungie did this. And everyone was fine with that. [quote]So saying the reworks didnt reduce or destroy identity, but enhance it, is a bit far fetched. [/quote] Not really. The changes made did make the "classes" feel more invested into their specific role. Titans didn't have an overshield barricade before. Titans didn't have a super offensive hammer slam ability before. Titans didn't have a "one punch man" melee ability before (supers aside). Warlocks Solar grenades weren't improved before. Warlocks Child of Old Gods is another addition to the "Step into the Void" aspect of Voidwalker and is very useful. Warlocks new Arc slide melee ability pushes down the "teleporting Lightning god" aspect of the subclass. Hunters "explosive gamble" aspect pushes down the "Wild West Outlaw with a Gun made out of Fire" aspect of the subclass. Hunters Invisibility pushes down the "Invisible Prey Hunter" aspect originally intended. Hunters fixes to Arc Strider were merely QoL changes but still kept the "Agile Warrior" aspect and pushed down onto that. All classes STILL have their class identity. They just shifted around some skills and made some buffs open to all to embrace build crafting. World of Warcraft did the same. Elder Scrolls Online did the same. SWTOR did the same. Literally every MMORPG at some point does this. It's called "fixing the identity crisis".
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So now I want to ask, how come many comments ago, you stated that the helminth system ruined class identity in Warframe, if a ton of other games do similar things?
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Because you at first didn't say "it only allows to take over 1 of 4 abilities of a Warframe" you said... [quote]Hell you can even take another Warframes ability through the Hellminth system and apply it to another.[/quote] ... which is open to interpretation and can imply that more than 1 ability can be taken over from another Warframe. Also, difference is that the abilities in Warframe are all very unique. For comparison, that sounds to me like, for example, you take Valkyrs War Cry ability and put it on Rhino, so you have 5 abilities instead of 4. That would be like giving Warlocks explosive ashes for Solar Grenades but not removing any Solar ability of Solar 2.0 in exchange.
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Fair enough, sorry for the confusion. Welp now that that is straight, we can part ways with a positive conclusion to the conversation.
