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Edited by kellygreen45:
9/1/2022 1:47:50 PM
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No personal disrespect.
But you are simply getting a small taste of what average players experienced playing against you for the last 3 years under CBMM.
You are having to compete now if you want to win matches, rather than being allowed to dominate weaker players. Many of whom had little if any realistic chance to beat you.
The difference though is you have the skill to fight back, and the ability to compete.
What I’m hearing is that you don’t find this as enjoyable.
…and that’s the root issue here. The conflict between two irreconcilable definitions of fun. Those who enjoy competing against players of similar skill, versus those who enjoy dominating players of lesser skill.
One is competitive. The other is predatory.
The market is such that one game can no longer serve both. Which is why half of the Crucibles player base melted away over the last three years.
I’m always amazed at how so many high skill players expect average players to accept conditions that those same high skill players consider unacceptable for themselves.
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Allegedly, SBMM should prevent this, but I find it extremely dubious. It's even worse for people at mid/low-tiers because they'll fight both the extremely high and extremely low end of skill and stomp them or be stomped. The skill variation in the mid-tier brackets is also extremely variable. 1.0-2.0 is a WIDE degree of skill separation that I hope Bungie accounts for. However, as we saw from yesterday's TWAB, it'll only get worse over the season for people like me as the fake K/Ds drop and the real ones stay up, if not improve, and the eligible playbase for people to queue with and against me dwindles even further. There's quite literally no higher that I could go in Bungie's skill bracket, so I'm already capped. Can't wait until I get 3-minute+ long queues as the game searches for the handful of top 500s left bothering to play Control for zero loot.
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I do agree that sbmm isn’t perfect it seems to operate based on kd instead of actual skill
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K/D is just one part of Bungie's "skill" calculation, so that might be why. It needs time to refine and more data most likely.
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I will do well in 1 match and then suddenly I get matched with players who either play on data in Antarctica or don’t know what missing or bodyshots are
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Maybe Bungie learned and copied COD's SBMM algorithm lol. Sounds exactly like what happened in COD WW2.
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Probably
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Its not, its a band aid fix that lower brackets cheer for when it arrives and within 6 months howl at for being unfair. the only difference in high and lower brackets is that higher brackets don't even get 6 months of fun. he's not complaining about competition, he's pointing out that it sucks that if you're in the top 20% you're doomed to a life of hard core sweat, not to win but because you have to. otherwise you're going to get a train ran on you till you cant take it anymore. Praising sbmm for your fun and lambasting Cbmm doesnt make you an advocate for fairness, it makes you a hypocrite. i dont think CBMM is a great final option but i certainly don't think SBMM is a wise long term choice.
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I think what you don't consider, is that with SBMM EVERYBODY sweats. There really is no difference between Great player vs. Great player, and Bottom player vs. Bottom player. Everybody is now playing people on their own level, just because its difficult for top players to play top players, does not mean that it is not difficult for an average player going up aginst another average player. I think many top players don't realize that its the same for everybody now. The difference now, is that most everybody has the same chance of competing instead of having absolutely no chance at all.
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Ding winner. Which means that the people who don’t enjoy competition are upset.
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I agree. SBMM gives lower players a CHANCE to win, and top players a chance to loose, and they don't like that.
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Precisely. Winning is fun. Competition is work…and therefore some don’t like it.
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100% this.
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and what's yours?
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see previous reply.
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[quote]No personal disrespect. But you are simply getting a small taste of what average players experienced playing against you for the last 3 years under CBMM. You are having to compete now if you want to win matches, rather than being allowed to dominate weaker players. Many of whom had little if any realistic chance to beat you. The difference though is you have the skill to fight back, and the ability to compete. What I’m hearing is that you don’t find this as enjoyable. …and that’s the root issue here. The conflict between two irreconcilable definitions of fun. Those who enjoy competing against players of similar skill, versus those who enjoy dominating players of lesser skill. One is competitive. The other is predatory. The market is such that one game can no longer serve both. Which is why half of the Crucibles player base melted away over the last three years. I’m always amazed at how so many high skill players expect average players to accept conditions that those same high skill players consider unacceptable for themselves.[/quote] You and anyone with this weak mindset should just stop. High skill players being forced to play meta loadouts and sweaty gameplay, IS NOT The same as low skill players getting clapped without having any type of skill to do something about it. Bungie needs to make comp more incentivized so sweats have some place to sweat it out, and every other playlist is strictly CBMM for those who don’t have the skill.
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I think the trashcans simply aren’t able to conceptualize that two trashcans going head to head is not the same as two top players going head to head. Furthermore, the matchmaking is more lenient on the lower end. There are more trashcans, varying from a 0.2 player to a 1.2 player, across the board. These people think they’re playing fair games now, when in reality it’s 1.2’s dogging on the 0.2’s. Essentially, it’s a different tier of “sweats” stomping on lower skilled players. At the higher end, this is much less likely. There’s not a lot of individual skill difference between a 1.8 and a 2.2. What it comes down to is subtle differences in movement, positioning, patience and individual aiming ability. What results is slow paced gameplay where the 1.8 and 2.2 play their lives heavily and bait blueberries against each other. Overall slower paced gameplay where it comes down to luck and who has the better blueberries on their team.
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It is the same subjectively. Which is why sports skill stratify. What the top players can’t understand is how absurdly unfair it is to pit a top player against someone who literally cannot effectively fight back. That is a predatory arrangement. One person has fun at the expense of someone else. Which is why Crucible was dying.
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You’re using sports as a comparison. Good. Let’s ignore, for now, that this SBMM should be in the actual competitive playlists and not the casual quick play playlist. In all sports, as level of play increases, the rewards for both winners and losers at these varying levels also increase. At the lowest level of play, there’s virtually no reward. At the highest level of play, there’s high dollar value reward. The people at the high end of SBMM should then be receiving incredible rewards, and the people at the low end should be receiving poor to zero rewards, regardless of winning or losing. I assume you support this system?
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Every single time rewards are brought up the entire pro-sbmm crowd never respond… They don’t care about fairness. They just want to feel like they aren’t trash at the game…
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I think a lot more people would be “okay” with the SBMM if it were in the proper playlists, however since that’s not going to happen, I think people would be okay with it if they were rewarded equitably. As it is right now, the SBMM is essentially “you’re an NBA level player, so go play in the NBA instead of in the highschool league. Oh, by the way, you’re not going to get NBA level pay, you’re going to get highschool league pay - nothing haha!” It’s a half baked, ill-thought implementation.
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You are absolutely right. Add incentive with proper rewards in competitive modes and everything would be fine…
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Yes. Next question?
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Edited by Kruze: 9/3/2022 3:08:29 AMThere is no next question. If you support the system of actual equitable rewards for differences in level of play, then you should all have absolute NO problem with bungie once again putting high tier, exceptional weapon rewards into the game for, say comp, all the way up at the 5500 glory rank level. If you can’t get up to it, on a SBMM system, then that’s that. You don’t get the reward, you don’t get the weapon, you don’t get an easier route to the weapon in any way. Except I have a hard time believing that you will all be fine with this reward system returning. Because when it was in the game before, you all whined so harshly that bungie took the rewards out to avoid people feeling bad. The trashcans on this game want their cake and to eat it too.
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Beautifully said.
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Edited by kellygreen45: 9/1/2022 8:48:44 PMEh. Nope. If you give away power as a reward, you’ll break the game. The rich get richer, and equipment advantages re-create a non-competitive environment. #PinnacleWeapons. But make those rewards cosmetic, and for bragging rights so they don’t break the game? Emblems, armor, ships, and sparrows? You have my unconditional support. Bungie should have done that years ago.
