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Edited by kellygreen45:
9/1/2022 1:47:50 PM
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No personal disrespect.
But you are simply getting a small taste of what average players experienced playing against you for the last 3 years under CBMM.
You are having to compete now if you want to win matches, rather than being allowed to dominate weaker players. Many of whom had little if any realistic chance to beat you.
The difference though is you have the skill to fight back, and the ability to compete.
What I’m hearing is that you don’t find this as enjoyable.
…and that’s the root issue here. The conflict between two irreconcilable definitions of fun. Those who enjoy competing against players of similar skill, versus those who enjoy dominating players of lesser skill.
One is competitive. The other is predatory.
The market is such that one game can no longer serve both. Which is why half of the Crucibles player base melted away over the last three years.
I’m always amazed at how so many high skill players expect average players to accept conditions that those same high skill players consider unacceptable for themselves.
English
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Red pill moment
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I got what he’s saying, it’s just incredibly hypocritical. I also truly don’t care about this dudes opinion, cause he has like 500 life time games in crucible he clearly doesn’t know what he’s talking about But it is still hilarious to tilt people.
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Problem, troll. [i]Bungie cares, and it’s their game.[/i] 😏
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I haven’t missed the point. The point is that there is no compromise here. The point is that you cannot have an environment that will satisfy both you parties. Players of lesser skill just had to put up with the conditions that CBMM created in years past, because they had no other options. Today there are a wide array of games that offer SBMM in all activities. So they simply don’t have to tolerate the conditions that the CBMM crowd wants. So they leave. Which is why Trials kept imploding time after time..,,and Why regular Crucible was slowly bleeding out. People are free to want what they want. But for the CBMM to get what they want requires players of lesser skill to abandon their own interests. …and in saturated gaming and entertainment market? Good luck with that.
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[quote]Two brick walls. Every. Single. Time. [/quote]
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Facts are stubborn things.
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[quote]Two brick walls. Every. Single. Time. [/quote] The sheer amount of irony is killing me.
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[quote][quote]Two brick walls. Every. Single. Time. [/quote] The sheer amount of irony is killing me.[/quote] Tell me about it 🤣
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I’m happy your pleased. Check out this weeks TWAB. Bungie agrees with me. Again.
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Um. No. They took a nuanced stance. While they directly showed the positives of the system, they also directly mentioned the poor match quality in higher brackets revolving around connection quality and quitters, even adding additional analytics to monitor connections and planning to address quitting. They even mentioned collecting more data to see if the issue is a result of player behavior or the system in place. Bungie didn't agree with you. They agreed with you AND the OP. That's the point you missed entirely. Again. If you're gonna be stubborn, at least be right. Other than that, have a good one.
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Edited by kellygreen45: 9/1/2022 10:54:38 PM1. I said they needed to address connection quality. 2. They are actually going to start punishing quilters. So they are actually taking a hardline on this. 3. They said player numbers are up (11%) and mercied matches are down. As well as matches being more competitive. So as I said, one part of the player base is responding well. Another is responding poorly.
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I don’t entirely disagree with sbmm, but an average player in pure cbmm is not the same as a top 1% player in pure sbmm. As an average player in a match with higher skilled players both on your team and on the opposing team, you don’t have as much of an impact on your team’s chance of winning. You can relax and still win by a teammate, even though you’ll probably get demolished by someone on the enemy team at some point. As a top 1% player in a lobby of other top 1% players, you have a significant contribution to your team and HAVE to try hard in order to win, because you can’t be carried. Another thing to consider is that without sbmm, there is very likely at least one opponent who is of your skill level or worse, unless you yourself are at the very bottom of the ladder. With sbmm there is also the problem of increased latency and longer matchmaking, which is especially prominent for high skill AND low skill players.
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[quote] The conflict between two irreconcilable definitions of fun. Those who enjoy competing against players of similar skill, versus those who enjoy dominating players of lesser skill. [/quote] False dichotomy is well.... False Sad to see you fall into the same poor logic traps as others on this forum.
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Edited by X-LoganX: 9/3/2022 2:28:01 AMI don't understand why you belive this isn't true. This rhetoric has dominated this discussion for over 2 years. Fun has clearly been shown different for both sides of this argument.
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Nope. True dichotomy. If it weren’t we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Because there would be a compromise solution, and after 8 years there clearly ISNT one. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
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Edited by draycole: 9/1/2022 8:38:54 PMThe way you are presenting this is if you aren't a part of the average player base who just wants regular competitive games you're a predatory elite taking advantage of poor disenfranchised players. Then when they say "I just don't want every match to be a meta sweatfest" That's somehow the experience the average player has been going through? That's just not possible. Unless you're not talking about the average player, and are actually referring to the absolute bottom tier of skill levels, in which case yeah just about every match will be a sweat fest for the guy who needs to chug gamer fuel to 1v1 dregs in the edz
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Edited by kellygreen45: 9/1/2022 8:45:03 PMNo. I’m saying that there are two irreconcilable definitions of fun. You either find competition fun or you find dominantion fun. People who enjoy competition, get bored and frustrated in a predatory environment. Which is why you hear so many complaints about matches being one blowout after another under CBMM. People who enjoy dominating, get frustrated and angry when they are required to compete when they don’t want to. Which is why you hear so many complaints about “sweaty” matches under SBMM. All the OTHER issues are solvable, and there are compromise positions that exist. The only “compromise” here failed. Bungie offered both SBMM and CBMM options for 6s, and the community chose the SBMM option. All the data shows that you’d simply get a repeat if they tried it again. There is no magic solution to be found here after 8 years of trying and failing. Bungie needs to pick a side and move on.
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Agreed.
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Well put mate.
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Average players? 🤔 I'm average and would load into PvP with whatever my bounties told me to be using (hand cannon/side arm, scout/auto etc) and would routinely be first place on the losing team with 5 beyond negative teammates using HC/shotgun, HC/fusion, HC/sniper 🤣 talk about "average" CBMM and freelance is the way. Heck we even used to be able to choose between a CBMM/SBMM playlist and none of you SBMM people liked that playlist so it died 😂
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Edited by kellygreen45: 9/1/2022 8:10:35 PMThen you are, by definition, not truly “average.” Bungie tried that and the vast majority chose the SBMM playlist and the top players complained about how “sweaty” the CBMM playlist was. Sound familiar?? The game can’t serve two masters on this, and devs are waking up to the fact that CBMM creates a toxic environment that isn’t good for the health of their games.
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Stat wise I'm average, not great/not terrible. I lived solo in the CBMM playlist back then and it was great. I remember the forums being a dumpster fire of lag in regards to the SBMM playlist like it is now. It absolutely can, CBMM/freelance playlist and a SBMM playlist where people can go to sweat/deal with copious amounts of lag👍 Idc about playing tougher opponents, I care about people leaving/walking into walls/teleporting 9 times in a single gunfight which is why I'll check out on PvP this season. I'll chill in trials if I want to have a casual experience 🤙
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[quote]I'll chill in trials if I want to have a casual experience 🤙[/quote] Isn't Trials the exact opposite of a casual experience?
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😂😂😂 It is like they are confused about what is considered casual.
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It’s “casual when it works to my benefit.”
