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Edited by kellygreen45:
9/1/2022 1:47:50 PM
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No personal disrespect.
But you are simply getting a small taste of what average players experienced playing against you for the last 3 years under CBMM.
You are having to compete now if you want to win matches, rather than being allowed to dominate weaker players. Many of whom had little if any realistic chance to beat you.
The difference though is you have the skill to fight back, and the ability to compete.
What I’m hearing is that you don’t find this as enjoyable.
…and that’s the root issue here. The conflict between two irreconcilable definitions of fun. Those who enjoy competing against players of similar skill, versus those who enjoy dominating players of lesser skill.
One is competitive. The other is predatory.
The market is such that one game can no longer serve both. Which is why half of the Crucibles player base melted away over the last three years.
I’m always amazed at how so many high skill players expect average players to accept conditions that those same high skill players consider unacceptable for themselves.
English
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A casual playlist is like an open court where every level is allowed to play and you try to make the teams as fair as possible. That’s why most games have a casual and a competitive list. The issue for me is in lobby balancing (At least for my skill bracket). There is no change in the experience for me since the switch at all except for more lag which is ok.
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Only in sports, top athletes dial their play WAAY back to avoid the risk of injury or humiliating weaker players. Those who don’t risk a fight in the parking lot later on. Or rough justice handed out on the field in less gentlemanly sports than tennis. But you wouldn’t see LeBron James complaining about having to play other pros and defending his right to dunk on someone’s 5’ tall 100lb 10 year old in a local pick up game. Seriously….
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I practice BJJ for years now and I fought a lot of weaker people and some champions. While fighting a champions is humbling you also learn a lot. Anyway the comparison is lacking and as usual is not bringing the discussion forward at all. It’s a casual playlist in a video game. Nobody is making millions afaik.
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Then people need to stop playing like they are getting paid. But the top players refuse to dial it back, and streamers and content creators are arguably exploiting weaker players for money. So now here we are. A recreational league where the better players play like it’s the world championship…and ruining the game for others.
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It’s not even like that. The chance that you will face one of the top players is absolutely slim and even if he will get 5 people in his team who don’t even know how to shoot their guns. Anyway I think I am just not a fan of this weak stagnant mindset and I personally like to improve but only good players will expose my bad habits. I know though it’s not for everybody and that is ok.
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No it’s not. Pareto Principle and Skill Creep. Simply. Top players are top players because they play way more than players of average ability. An average player may only play for 15 minutes a day. Whereas a top player usual plays several hours a day. So these top players are ridiculously over-represented in the MM pool. So you encounter them far more often than there prevalence in the playerbase. A former poste Lost Sols did an amazing job of showing this by analyzing 50 consecutive matches in Quickplay (CBMM), by looking at ELO as a measure of Skill. IIRC, half of the matches had at least one player of Master level (ELO >1800), and 1 in 3 matches had MULTIPLE players at that level and frequent one or more Grandmasters. While the players at the bottom where always 1000 or lower. Often as low as 800. IOW, his experience matched what Bungie’s own data showed that the talked about in the TWAB. That players of lesser skill because of skill creep and population statistics were routinely going up against people they literally had no hope of beating.
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Referring to Lost Sols Post doesn’t help you case. Neither does throwing in buzz words. The TWAB numbers are just from one week with free to play options and other factors. I would wait for that stats when they actually become significant. To be clear I am for everyone having fun and everyone can voice there opinion. It’s still weird for me that people that rarely play a mode have such a strong opinion on how that mode should be. I personally want a list where I face better players as I am ok with the fact that other people are better in something. That doesn’t mean I condone the type of pub stomping some toxic players do.
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Edited by kellygreen45: 9/2/2022 9:17:43 AM“Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. That does not mean that you are entitled to your own set of facts.” —Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan. That post was an effort to manufacture your own set of facts so you could dismiss actual facts that paint a picture you don’t like. Wow. Bungie’s numbers are the result of many months—probably years—of analyzing crucible matches. Sols numbers represent independent confirmation of Bungie’s later conclusion..and were of publishable quality. Bungie’s initial number from yesterday’s TWAB show the expected community response from a return to SBMM. Engagement is up for the first time this year. Matches are more competitive. Why do I have a strong opinion? Simple. [i]I care for what is best for the game and the community as a whole. Not just what’s in it for ME.[/i] And when you take that POV, what needs to be done is very clear. Which is why SBMM is becoming the industry standard.
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“The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.” – Thucydides For somebody with “real life obligations” you for sure have a lot of time bickering in a game forum. Lost Sols was a true data scientist and put out amazing scientific work here. Unfortunate you confuse opinion and facts. Just adding random buzzwords of quotes does not make it sound more intellectual. You pick fights here with people who are not against you and show a lot of double standards. I didn’t say I am against the change. I stated above nothing changes for me at all. The underlying issues in Crucible remain the same for me. Just because you think something becomes standard doesn’t necessarily make it good. I truly hope “standard” of “debate” is not becoming standard for example. Since you are are only interested in pushing your own agenda as a self proclaimed spokesperson of the 0.5 K/D and below people and not in real debate to consider possible solutions for both sides of the argument I consider it mute to continue this. I do have actual real life obligations.
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Wow. Talk about zero self-awareness. You described yourself. With a few gratuitous and irrelevant insults thrown at me. Which is usually the mark of someone who can’t win the argument based on the facts. Because they are arguing from emotion and self-interest.
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I know it hurts to hear the truth sometimes but you just cling to your ideology and call it facts. Anyway you may return to your embroideries now I don’t have time for this nonsense anymore.
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Edited by kellygreen45: 9/2/2022 12:09:08 PMROFLMAO. Go gaslight someone else….
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Ok dude
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So how about you dont comment saying matchmaking is better when you haven’t tried it?
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matchmaking is better for the majority of average players :)
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Edited by J: 9/2/2022 4:09:55 PM
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1. I don’t answer to you. 2. I’m speaking about SBMM in general terms, and commenting about what other people are saying their experience is. But let’s be clear. In two weeks, I’ll have been playing Destiny for 8 years. Which means I’ve played thousands of matches under SBMM. So I have more than enough experience to speak about it. I’m sorry that you don’t like what I have to say.
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Well I'm played it. It was few matches because I was prepared for KF raid. This week is Gambit. Maybe next one I will play more. But in those control mode matches I played it was non mercy rule and points been pretty close 120/150 or something like that.
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Let's get the obvious out of the way first. KG45 bad, downvoted out of principle, rabble rabble rabble. Second. I absolutely agree with all of it. [quote]I’m always amazed at how so many high skill players expect average players to accept conditions that those same high skill players consider unacceptable for themselves.[/quote] The double standards here are impressive, but the fact that it's just expected that everyone puts up with the abuse so that some elite few can 'chill' and 'try out their trash/meme builds' is just astonishing. Yes, OP, you're having to [i]try[/i] to win. Newsflash, everyone is...
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Edited by kellygreen45: 9/1/2022 2:50:05 PMLol. I think your final sentence nails it. OP is having to work now for success, and he’s not enjoying it. Whereas CBMM allowed him to only have to work when he felt like it (Late in Trials). What is disturbing is the utter lack of awareness that he’s simply been brought back down to earth, and is starting to experience the game like the vast majority of players. Privilege is invisible to those who have it.
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[quote] The market is such that one game can no longer serve both. Which is why half of the Crucibles player base melted away over the last three years.[/quote] It ABSOLUTELY can. A sbmm control playlist focusing on team and objective play, as well as a cbmm playlist focusing on just having a good time. Solved. And the playerbase has melted away over the last 3 years because they don’t put ANY resources into PvP. What, 3 new maps in that time? And when was the last time comp was updated? Shadowkeep? It’s not the playerbases fault that PvP has suffered, it’s BUNGIE’S.
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No it can’t if the customers at the lower end of the skill curve won’t support it…and you have multiple options in competing games that offer SBMM in all activities. In short, average players don’t have to put up with being treated poorly. So they leave. Or they only play content with SBMM. Which causes CBMM playlists to collapse (cough…Trials before the overhaul…cough).
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You realize I could turn right around and say the opposite in favor of good players, right? The hypocrisy is real.
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Yes you could. So Bungie needs to decide which group they wish to cater to. I think they made their choice.
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Yeah, they made their choice NOW. They’ve flip flopped plenty of times before, this will be no different. They always cater to whoever yells the loudest. See you in a year, or maybe even less.
