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originally posted in: Savathun is not evil (SPOILERS)
7/25/2022 5:54:39 AM
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They attack you first. You don’t attack “honored guests”. Unless your philosophy is that of the Sword Logic, in which you try to kill honored guests. Killing typically means…not good. The Ghosts may have pushed the idea of being violent against us, knowing we would come. She could have easily left instructions, in which case OG Savvy told new Savvy to attack intruders. So by her own hand and manipulations, she made her reset self make herself an enemy of us instead of allowing for the chance of reconciliation. And if not her then the Ghosts, who see us as bad guys anyway. I’m fine with the claim that we didn’t attempt to make peace but let’s not act like they were innocent.
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  • Edited by Papi: 7/25/2022 5:58:51 AM
    My theory on that is they are Light, we are half light half dark. So they can sense darkness in us. its just that good vs. evil sense. But hey, its a shooter video game. Ofc we need to have someone to shoot.

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  • Who told them Darkness is evil? Darkness isn’t evil, it’s a power. Just like Warlords used Light for evil. The user is what determines if the power is being used for good or evil. So if someone told them, it would of either been OG Savathun leaving messages and/or their Ghosts egging them on. If they had been advocating for peace, they wouldn’t of been hostile first. We’ve seen this in the game before several times. Enemies who don’t want to fight and allow passage. Let’s not forget, their whole plan [i]relied[/i] on us doing that. We had every right to go in there and find out what was going on and our arrival was expected, hence the defenses.

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  • 3
    Guardian,Archon Of Light
    Guardian,Archon Of Light

    Blade Of The Traveler - old

    I get that darkness isn't evil on its own, what's bothering me is the recent questioning of the Great Machine (Traveler for you 2 eyed folks) "Maybe The Traveler isn't what we thought it was ?" , does it matter what the Traveler is ? , we would be dead without it, it is our God, Savior and Benifactor, did it bring the darkness, and all these other species chasing its power to our door, yes, but people weren't complaining on there 200th birthday, and no disease or poverty was pretty good, also being able to live on other worlds , The Traveler has good intentions, it's just that fing darkness always manages to f things up Getting back on Topic, it's not just the fact that the Lucent Brood may not have been has diplomatic has they should be, it's the fact that we were so offended by the Hive having the Light, that we didn't allow that they didn't attain it without some form of Treachery. Didn't we just spend 2 seasons building bridges and expanding our horizons and redefining enemy and friend, needing all the allies we can , but outright refused to even consider the Hive could be an ally, a paracausal ally, that would have been more help than the Cabal or Eliksni ever could be , it's even revealed by Savathuns Worm that she saved us and the Traveler in the first collapse by convincing the witness that the Traveler and Humanity were dead , but even in light of that revelation , there was no call to reach out to immaru to rez her, in fact that's what can sum up the witch queen campaign, a collection of huge revelations that didn't change thing one,in the end it was still "Hive Bad,Shoot Hive' TLDR, If you are in a desperate situation, never look a gift horse in the mouth , and if your parents are paying your bills , maybe you shouldn't talk about them behind there back

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  • It does matter. We rely on it to survive, it’s motivations matter because if they stop aligning with us…why would it continue to empower us? The whole reason they didn’t question it was because we thought we were special to it. Now we find out that not only are we not but even the worst people in the cosmos can qualify for it. I mean, it didn’t even warn Humanity about the Fleet. That’s crap no matter how you slice it. I’d say you’re ignoring the differences and motivations. Not to mention the fact that npcs know less then the players and have muddied perspectives. Fallen and Cabal wanted the Traveler for their own ends but ultimately were not trying to destroy it. The Hive have literally wanted to consume it and take its power. So the Hive aren’t just enemies of Humanity, they have been sworn enemies of the Traveler for eons. So making allies with the Fallen and Cabal but not the Hive makes sense. We have common enemies. The Lucent Brood proved to be an enemy not willing to work with us against a common threat. So you don’t play nice with someone bound and determined to get you killed. That’s not smart. She didn’t save Humanity and the Traveler for our sake or out of decency. She did it so she could trade her Worm for a Ghost later on. Just because it benefited us doesn’t mean she did it for us. The Vex have helped us beat mutual foes, doesn’t mean they don’t want us dead. Like Savathun getting us to restore her memories. She set that plan into motion before getting her Ghost. And her plan invovled us losing our powers and getting wiped out by the Black Fleet. So the whole time they were “ignorant” the wheels of their betrayal were already spinning. There was never any chance to be allies because the Lucent Brood [i]doesn’t want any[/i]. So tell me, when someone plots your demise [i]consistently[/i], how are they ally material?

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  • 1
    Guardian,Archon Of Light
    Guardian,Archon Of Light

    Blade Of The Traveler - old

    My point was that we are in no position to question the Traveler, we are already playing with fire by using the darkness , one day it might get offended enough to just leave , and how long do you think think powerless humans would last against physically superior enemies,we would either go extinct or wish we did And we desperately need paracausal allies bringing the Cabal and Eliksni alone to bear on the enemy is like taking a knife to a bomb fight, it's nice we are burying the hatchet and trying to heal old wounds, but an overwhelming force is at our door, a power even greater than the Traveler , and Like Savathun hinted at in Season Of Lost, guns are not going to make a difference in this fight. So it doesn't matter what the Hive did in service of the deep , it matters what they can offer the Light now And I believe the real reason the Lucent Brood is not our ally is because Bungie has already decided the ending for Destiny, with names like Lightfall and Final Shape, it's obvious the Witness is going to win, and having such a powerful ally at our side would threaten that ending

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  • Sure we can question it. While you’re correct that we are alive because of it, you’ve forgotten that we have saved it as well. Or did you forget that it’s our character that enabled it to heal from its centuries old wounds back in D1 and wake up in base D2? That we are the sole reason the Hive didn’t drain it completely and consume it? So we can ask ‘why did you do that’. Asking that question [i]while[/i] we literally physically defend it. We are still holding up our end of the bargain. If the god has a problem with that, then it’s no ally of ours. That’s someone who is just using us. As for us using the Darkness, so what? When did the Traveler forbid it? Who failed who when the Darkness easily overcame our Light? Not us. What disaster was averted by our use of Darkness? Cosmic annihilation. The Traveler is going to complain we used our enemies tools to [i]save it?[/i] Sounds like someone whose not only ungrateful but who thinks you should suffer for it’s ideals. That’s not an ally either. Fortunately, all dialogue in the lore indicates that is not the mindset of the Gardner. Her convo with Clovis Bray is probably indicator. As for paracausal allies being better, somewhat. I mean the Fallen aren’t paracausal but without their help, we would of been dead back during Splicer. Ciatal and Co are helping. She just helped with the severance quest without even doing the binding ritual. Those two species have something unique to offer that we need. Paracausal power is already covered. Guardians have Light and Dark, Lucent Hive only have Light. All they have is knowledge. At this point, that’s the only thing they have to offer. Which given what they know, is no small offer either. I’m not exactly against a Lucent Hive alliance. It’s likely we will temporarily team up, deal with the threat then someone backstabs the other.

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  • just gimme those poppy flowers and shhh lucent hive smelt us wreaking of stasis stench... they shoot first. make a new character and skip europa stasis quest... maybe they lucent won't shoot?

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  • ur missing the point im not talking about their morality in this sense im just saying they have that rivalry or antithesis as entities

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