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5/22/2022 12:17:34 AM
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I have 2 paid accounts with every expansion and one F2P account.
The F2P experience is trash.
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Lmfao!!! I read this thread and I have to say that you really tried. You were thoughtful, specific and polite. Probably way more than you had to be.
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Wouldn’t it be awesome to get somewhere near to where the F2P experience was prior to year 4. We’ve already got a f2p “campaign” in the cosmodrome and while it may not have the same stakes as say your intro being red war, curse of Osiris and warmind it does the job as a free campaign. But we had 3 free raids. If people want to make the argument the raid Lairs are closer to dungeons we still only have 1 free to play dungeon, therefore for it to be on par we would need another raid to make the experience somewhat equal to how it was before season 12.
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The F2P experience is trash compared to the paid experience, but IMO that’s fine. The F2P experience isn’t really designed to be a long-term commitment and is more along the lines of a trial. If people enjoy the game, they should be encouraged to purchase the expansions so they have more content to play.
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Bungie physically providing less content now as opposed to before year four is a yikes from me. When you consider the financial investment players like yourself and I make to own every piece of paid content. Then the understanding that the paid content could literally just be vaulted when it hits a certain point in time you could see why it’s not acceptable to provide F2P players with way less than they were receiving before.
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Most of the content we do have is tied to an expansion, so the content available for F2P players is limited. I’ve seen some F2P players put thousands of hours into this game. At some point, those players need to consider buying an expansion. And that should be way before they hit the 1,000 hour mark.
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I disagree on a fundamental level. Free to play should be free to play not “after a certain amount of content you have to pay”
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Edited by Guardian3564: 5/22/2022 2:34:33 AMExcept Bungie's business model is consistent with the definition of "free-to-play." https://www.techopedia.com/definition/27039/free-to-play-f2p [quote]Free to play (F2P) refers to a business model for online games in which the game designers do not charge the user or player in order to join the game. [b]Instead, they hope to bring in revenue from advertisements or in-game sales, such as payment for upgrades, special abilities, special items, and expansion packs.[/b][/quote] https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/free-to-play [quote]Relating to or denoting an arrangement in which basic access to a game is granted without charge [b]while more advanced features must be paid for[/b].[/quote] https://www.cyberdefinitions.com/definitions/F2P.html [quote]F2P is an abbreviation used in online gaming with the meaning "Free To Play." F2P games do not require users to pay to participate. [b]However, F2P players are typically only allowed access to very basic features of the game. Upgrades to higher levels, or to gameplay-enhancing features usually have to be paid for[/b].[/quote] https://www.howtogeek.com/798213/what-does-f2p-mean-explaining-how-free-to-play-works/ [quote]In its current incarnation, though, F2P describes something very different. While there are free games out there—some of them quite good—when we say “free-to-play” (note the hyphens,) [b]we usually mean games that operate under the freemium model[/b]. The Freemium Model - [b]At first, the freemium model meant that you got access to a game for free—but, to progress in it, you needed to pay[/b]. For example, you could run around in a game with certain basic weapons, but to get better ones or to upgrade them you needed to spend some money through so-called microtransactions, where you spend a dollar or even less to buy one specific in-game item.[/quote]
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I appreciate you laying it out like that but what I’m saying is if there is a basic version of the game that is open to free to play players then why are they reducing the size of that and not replacing it when they cut out 3 campaigns and 3 raids only to replace it with one substantially weaker campaign and one raid.
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Probably because the majority of content they are releasing is for paid expansions, which is what I would expect them to focus on since paid expansions pay their bills and F2P players do not. If people want to be a F2P player, they’re going to get the most basic experience.
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It wasn’t a basic experiance before which is the point I am making. You can’t just take away content that was previously free then not replace it. Or take 3 years to get back to where we were.
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Edited by Guardian3564: 5/22/2022 4:18:32 PM[quote]It wasn’t a basic experiance before which is the point I am making. You can’t just take away content that was previously free then not replace it. Or take 3 years to get back to where we were.[/quote] Yes, they can. https://www.bungie.net/en/Bungie/Terms [quote]Service Provided Content may be altered, removed, deleted, or discontinued by Bungie at any time[/quote]
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Damn bro you really seem to be eager to let bungie take your money then poof the content you paid them for away when the game gets too big…. I can’t really reason with you any further than that. If you’re down to just let that happen then more power to you I guess. I think it’s a crummy business practice myself.
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You're comparing the content lost by those who paid for it to f2p players who paid nothing and lost nothing. F2p players don't just deserve more because there was more before. Do we like the DCV? No. Does that mean more should be made f2p? Still no. Bungie aren't making free content. They make content for people to buy and some of it happens to be accessible to f2p players. Nothing more.
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Edited by Guardian3564: 5/22/2022 6:23:19 PM[quote]Damn bro you really seem to be eager to let bungie take your money then poof the content you paid them for away when the game gets too big…. [/quote] They can only take my money if I'm willing to give it to them. I'm not really concerned about Bungie vaulting content because I'm not going to pay for an expansion unless I plan on playing it, and if I plan on playing it, I'm going to invest enough time into that content to get my money's worth. We play video games as a source of entertainment, and the content that was vaulted provided me with plenty of entertainment. Enough entertainment that I was only paying pennies per hour. And to me, that's worth it. Video games always have been, and always will be one of the cheapest sources of entertainment available. Movie tickets for 2? $30. Bottle of Lagavulin Distillers Edition? $135. I can't even go to the mall with friends when I'm bored without spending ~$250 before I leave. I just bought 3-day Disneyland Passes for my sister, brother-in-law and nephew for my nephew's birthday. $330/person. Even going out and grabbing a cup of coffee with friends is going to run me $6 for something that's going to be gone in 15 minutes. As far as I'm concerned, hundreds of hours of entertainment for $40 is worth every penny to me. And I've put enough time into that vaulted content that I don't really feel the need to play it again. [quote]I can’t really reason with you any further than that. If you’re down to just let that happen then more power to you I guess. I think it’s a crummy business practice myself.[/quote] It sounds a bit like you're trying to convince people to side with you. We're going to disagree, and that's fine. You can have your opinion, and I can have mine. As I stated earlier, the "F2P" version of D2 is more along the lines of a trial than a long-term experience. After a certain point, those players should consider buying an expansion if they want more to do in this game.
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I am trying to convince you because I believe I’m right. You’re making an argument that no entertainment is free in the modern day now but again I disagree. There’s plenty of free entertainment. You can literally get entire games for free nowadays. Such as Deltarune or Friday night funkin. Now sure you might not spend as much time on them as you would destiny but if they are going to label the game free to play then it should be free to play. The endgame should be substantial and being shady removing free content only to take 3 years to get to the same place with no guarantee our returning raids will be free just seems super off to me.
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Edited by Guardian3564: 5/22/2022 7:21:26 PM[quote]I am trying to convince you because I believe I’m right. You’re making an argument that no entertainment is free in the modern day now but again I disagree. There’s plenty of free entertainment. [/quote] I'm not making the argument that no entertainment is free, I'm making the argument that video games are one of the cheapest sources of entertainment available. [quote]You can literally get entire games for free nowadays. Such as Deltarune or Friday night funkin. Now sure you might not spend as much time on them as you would destiny but if they are going to label the game free to play then it should be free to play.[/quote] They're games I've literally never heard of. I probably wouldn't spend as much time playing those games as I would playing D2, which is why I'm willing to pay for the D2 expansions so I can get the full experience. [quote]The endgame should be substantial and being shady removing free content only to take 3 years to get to the same place with no guarantee our returning raids will be free just seems super off to me.[/quote] We should be getting King's Fall in a future season. Pretty sure it's going to be free, and F2P players will have access to the returning raid. There's nothing shady about removing free content. The game is constantly changing, and there are limitations on how big the game can be. Which is why the DCV exists in the first place. We don't need to get back to the same place that D2 F2P was at years ago. You seem to be convinced that we do, and we'll have to disagree on that. I'd like gas prices to go back down to where they were years ago. Sometimes, we don't get what we want. F2P players are not entitled to a minimum amount of free content. Like I said earlier, F2P players aren't paying Bungie's bills. They're not going to dedicate time and resources towards making content specifically for F2P players. They're paying their bills with PAID content. And that's where they should be focusing their time and resources on. Making this game "F2P" in the first place was a mistake. Bungie never should have gone that route.
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You’re just wrong. Your delusion that bungie physically cannot he in the wrong here and that taking away the quantity of free content and not replacing it with the same amount of substance is shady. Video games aren’t cheap. We literally put so much cash into bungie’s pockets to buy every season and expansion. Now they want to charge for events as well. Deltarune and FnF are both games with large followings that’s on you for not knowing about them.
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Which are you, f2p or p2p? You cannot be both. F2p players are not entitled to anything. You get what you pay for and losing content you didn't pay for does not entitle you to an equivalent replacement. P2p players get the same thing, what we paid for. The DCV is more of a topic for p2p players to lament because we lost content that we paid for. That's not to say that f2p players cannot lament the loss of their free content but it simply is what it is, they didn't buy squat so they can hardly complain like its something they're owed.
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Edited by Guardian3564: 5/22/2022 8:24:27 PMYou’re entitled to your opinion and I’m entitled to mine. Like I said, making this game F2P was a mistake. F2P players are not entitled to a minimum amount of free content.
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That’s the root of it. You believe fundamentally the game should not be free to play.
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And that’s not a problem. The problem was making this game F2P in the first place.
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You’re just so impossibly wrong XD When you consider the place the game was in terms of population when the decision was made and how it kept people interested, kept them around and incentivised new players to start playing it it really wasn’t a bad move. You could argue it’s contributed to keeping the game alive.
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Paying customers are keeping this game alive. Not the long-term F2P players.
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You didn’t understand what I said. During a time period when paying customers were not investing into the game and the population was low bungie made the decision to go F2P, this drew in more players and arguably has contributed to keeping the game alive. The two aren’t mutually exclusive. You can keep a games population high if enough people sign in, they don’t necessarily have to pay. Look at games like fortnite that make most of their money from micro transactions. That’s not me saying micro transactions are good however.
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F2P players don’t pay Bungie’s bill. Paying customers do. F2P players only increase the player count, and the last time I checked, that isn’t going to pay the bills.
