I mean. It’s literally as simple as making the lobby balancing algorithm prioritize individual matchups rather than trying to dictate outcomes But sure go off lol

Individual matchmaking aka skill based matchmaking isn't lobby based matchmaking aka CBMM. The former attempts to make a matching lobby from the start. The latter has to make do with a purely random lobby and then trying to 'sort' 0.5KDs with 3+KD incompatibilities and somehow expecting it not to be a stompfest. It's doomed to fail, an impossible task. You're fly swatter or food for powder. No window dressing of CBMM will ever change that.

You have literally no clue lol

"yOu HaV³ LiTeRaLlY nO cLUe" Consider your devastating intellectual argument made and won 🤣🤦‍♂️

I mean it’s not worth arguing with somebody who doesn’t even understand the basic terminology. Hence the “literally no clue” Lobby balancing isn’t SBMM Lobby balancing is how Bungie sorts the 12 people they found through CBMM, in to fireteams Bungies current approach is abysmal and literally uses the lowest players in the lobby as fodder to slow down the best player in a lobby. Because Bungie cares more about average match win rate than the actual in game experience A simple tweak to their team balancing algorithm would probably solve half the complaints we see about matchmaking on these forums. Instead of best player + 5 worst Vs 2nd best + the rest We need a schoolyard split Because right now those 5 worst players are having a bad time because they are destined to have every opponent be better than them And the best player in the lobby is destined to have 0 help from his teamates

I mean you sound like a child hence your crayon-written contribution here. So, no, they tried Schoolyard Pick and it fared no better. Why, because as I explained they still have they SAME random lobby to deal with. SBMM arranges a lobby. CBMM has no arrangement beyond connection strength. CBMM with 'lobby balancing' - the only available micro-adjusted CBMM here - has no control of the lobby but tries to sort it AFTER the lobby has been gathered. And that can't work whichever way you attempt to 'balance' it. Whatever the distribution of Combat Rated players you'll still have very low repeatedly playing again high. It's never works. Except for those who want to stomp.

You can sort a random lobby to feel a lot better than it feels right now. Right now we get #1,8,9,10,11,12 vs 2,3,4,5,6,7 very often, and players #8-12 are used as fodder to slow down #1. If you are consistently in the #8-12 range, it feels like an uphill battle because the entire enemy team (2-7) is better than you and you never get a fair engagement. A simple switch to 1,4,6,8,10,12 vs 2,3,5,7,9,11 would make matches MUCH more enjoyable for the players in them. Sure players #1 and #2 would still run over their opponents. But atleast players 3-12 would all have relatively similar players on the opposing team to play againsnt.

[quote] A simple switch to 1,4,6,8,10,12 vs 2,3,5,7,9,11 would make matches MUCH more enjoyable for the players in them. [/quote] They already tried School Yard Pick, it was no better. [quote] Sure players #1 and #2 would still run over their opponents. But atleast players 3-12 would all have relatively similar players on the opposing team to play againsnt.[/quote] The topmost of the random lobby are simply just mopping up. There is a full spectrum of ratings it pools from. In NO SHAPE OR FORM will a big chunk of lower 12 relative to the others work out. This is why you get the dumb git gud replies. Because only by avoiding that by being better than average - by gittin gud - gives you a cat in hells chance of avoiding repeatedly bad games. It doesn't work - it can't work. It's just window dressing a bad system. It's trying to polish a turd and expecting a great result.

Bungie has never tried school yard pick in conjunction with cbmm. literally never. (at least not in d2) Also, you call cbmm a bad system. Sbmm was damn near unplayable for good (and really bad) players due to the connection issues and ridiculously long queue times. And aside from "suck it up" ive yet to hear a rebuttal to that point. IDK about you but id rather be in control of my gaming experience. Id rather have a hard time because im not very good, rather than because the connections are unplayable and matchmaking takes an eternity. You can always improve yourself to improve your experience. But you cant magically make bungies sbmm no longer be laggy and slow.

Yes it was. March last year CBMM in School Yard Pick. I remember it well. Quote "With the changes being deployed today, we’re updating our Crucible lobby balancer to balance teams with a modified algorithm which can be compared to “School Yard Pick” or “Snake Draft”. This will attempt to place the best player on team one, second best player on team two, third best player on team two, fourth best player on team one, and so on. " Connecting is bad now that's P2P. Wait times should be longer for those at either end of the bell curve subject to a reasonable cut off period. What's far more important than absolutely marginal connection benefit and wait times for extreme players with a cut off is playability within one's range. That's where the fun is, that's what continually adjusts to you, continually is challenging, and remains challenging no manner of you sub-metavor super cheesey meta build and loadouts. I would take that over the former any day of the week. Problem is there is no control at a certain point - especially in 6v6 where the pool if 12 is large - you are near guaranteed to have multiples of those who are exponentially above you. Past a certain point, let's say a 1.2kd player Vs 1.8kd past THAT gap it is utterly futile, you're just stomped on. And those in reverse care fly swotting or team carrying or team sunk.

I will admit I was wrong about the schoolyard pick thing being implemented before. I do think I remember that, but if i recall It was while we had two main playlists (with sbmm being an available option) Player pops were very low at the time, As far as the 1.2-1.8kd gap. See this post I wrote: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/260399097?page=0&sort=0&showBanned=0&path=1 Read it, Tell me what you think. Because I dont see how sbmm can work in destiny.

The secret sauce it had used for SBMM was partly based on its also secret Combat Rating - which may have a close relationship to KDA - along with a live, continually updated (in every portion of each game) assessment of how each player is doing. That must include kills, assists, and accuracy, shots on target. That much we know and has been stated by Bungie. Distribution of that assessment will be in a bell curve - various results have been documented for various modes like Trials that approximate to it. It will broadly follow Halos PvP results: https://www.halowaypoint.com/news/halo-infinite-playlist-challenge-update So, yes, at either end the population is far lower. That's why I say that those will wait and SHOULD wait extra, otherwise you aren't actually matching. Then it follows that after a reasonable short wait - and Halo⁸ does a better job here of telling you the estimated wait time for you - it widens the criteria. Indeed it would be sensible that from the outset the skill-based assessment counteracts the bell curve proportionally. That is, it's exponentially wider at the ends and gradually tighter within the middle - but not so tight as to cause some of the previous problems of that. Crossplay too has helped some of the shortage, particulary on low uptake platforms like Stadia. Wait times are entirely solvable. Lag is always going to be there under P2P and will continue to be present to a lesser or greater degree regardless. Playability however is simply a greater priority. Far greater. This is the key point. I will suffer occasional teleporting players. I won't suffer repeat games with players of half or less/double or more KDs. I will say that CBMM with team sorting can have a higher chance of 'getting lucky' in 3v3s with it's 6 random players, if and only if you're around average. For 6v6 however it's almost always going to be a team wipeout one way or the other because you've now 12 chances of getting one or several more towards the higher end along with one or several of those significantly below those - to almost always disastrous effect. At minimum we need either SBMM, SBMM in cycles e.g. monthly, weekly alternating SBMM modes ie without splitting of population, or if there is the population for it SBMM options for the same modes.

Me personally I want to see SBMM in 3s and not in 6s 3s are absolutely boring with CBMM. A good player will get no enjoyment because odds are they can casually (and I mean CASUALLY) 1v3 the other team most of the time. The smaller lobby size of 3v3 also puts less stress on connections. 6v6 SBMM Is unplayable for me except for imediately after content drops or other times that boost total player counts. At the outlier levels, widening the skill bracket doesn’t do much to solve SBMMs issues. I’m a 2.6 in quickplay or there about. 1.3 KD ish is top 10% I have double the KD of a 90th percentile player and honestly probably couldn’t even tell the difference between a 1.3 and a 1.0 They would still be getting farmed for the most part. So even cutting my player pool by a factor of 10, I’m still going to end up in lobbies with players I will stomp in to the ground. Except it will be much laggier and slower matchmaking. So what’s the point?

Well to avoid a farming or farmed situation there simply has to be some element of SBMM. 2.6s shouldn't be matched with 1.3s. Team support or lack thereof aside that's going to be incredibly boring, no challenge at all for most of the time, or incredibly frustrating, barely to get a shot in a whole game, every game. If they did proportionally adjust for skill this would better work out for you in my opinion. If a 1.32 player might face 1.30 - 1.34 (approximately the kind of range in the previous SBMM), a 2.6 might face 2.2 - 3.0+. You'd still have wipeouts both ways, but you'd trade in most of those sub-2.2 complete annihilations for a range of challenges. And that would certainly help all those who are simply incompatible with 2.6s. For my money, I'd have two different 6v6 modes - a new 6v6 gametype beyond Control - one SBMM and one CBMM and that might flip mid season. Same split with perhaps four different 3v3s.

I dont think you realize just how few people there are in those brackets lol Did you read the post i linked to you? To put it simply: 120k hrly active players 20-30k of which are in pvp 5-8k of which are in the US At any given time, on average only 1,000-1500 are queuing instead of in a match. That means split in to brackets of 10%, (thats loose enough that the best player in the world could match against 1.3s) the player pool would only be 100-150 people queuing at one time in the US, in a pool. If you tried to tighten that up to 2.2kd and up, that would be more like 10-15 players queuing at any given time, in the US. Those are tiny pools that would lead to either horribly laggy unplayable, unenjoyable and repetitive matches, AND/OR insanely long queue times.

I read it it seems you didn't read my reply. That's why I suggested and outlined a SBMM /CBMM split. Also previously in SBMM when matches across the board were observably around ±0.2 KAD higher tiers were still matched, had lag but not exponentially more than current, wait times but no more than is necessary. SBMM is just required at least in options or cycles for the average or lower player. Or they simply won't play or leave altogether. That really isn't optional or negotiable. At higher end, some more lag and wait in SBMM is indeed inevitable and also why some CBMM too is needed.

Previous sbmm was exponentially laggier and slower. For outliers. Middle of the curve players dont notice this because there are a ton more players between lets say 1.0 and 1.2kd than there are between 2.0 and 2.2 (i think atleast 20% or so of the playerbase falls between 1.0 and 1.2 where as MAYBE 0.5% of the playerbase falls between 2.0 and 2.2)

It's not the CRITICAL issue for most though. Hence the need for a split for one range. Having watched many a 3+Kd Frostbolt etc stream there was but still remains lag. That trade off however is simply literally critical to most others. But, of course, it has to work from 0 - 3+ too hence also the need for the split to work for the 'higher' end range. . Even with Eg x1 6v6 and x2 3v3 for CBMM and the same for SBMM, there would still be the dual option to go to SBMM where that assessment is live. For that option at the higher end simply drop the meta weapons, the DMTs the Lorentz, don't use 140s or 120s, or a shotgun, etc, just for a change. Then watch your wait times drop and your lag return to its wonderful 'normal' level. It's an option that just 'git gut' isn't.

Respectfully. I dont think you have a clue man. lol "drop the meta and your wait times will improve" isnt remotely how it works out

Then you ended up as ignorant and blinkered as you began. Good day.

I mean you are pulling random numbers out of your -blam!- and just expecting them to work. I show you the math of why they dont and you ignore it. Then you say my issues with sbmm would be magically fixed if i "drop the meta" (didnt realize legal action + twilight oath were such top options lol) You are clueless, and it pains me that you have an opinion because i cant even begin to understand how that opinion came to exist as it seems to be relatively devoid of logical basis.