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Edited by kellygreen45:
1/16/2022 4:21:02 PM
15
https://youtu.be/liCwNA2btTI
Although this video is about early Trials, it also applies to IB and Control.
When you have mm where there is no skill-stratification (CBMM), the better players create a hostile environment for weaker players and drive them out of the game. Then the next lowest level of players. And so on and so on.
Skill creep has the same effect on mm pools that distillation has on alcohol. It takes some that is at low concentration in the player pool, and starts making it more and more and more concentrated. Until what used to be only 5% of the pool is eventually 75 % of (150 proof).
The problem is that many people can enjoy alcohol when it’s in low concentration. Very few people can stomach the taste of distilled liquors straight.
So you create a situation that few people want to be a part of.
Trials was a perfect storm of design failures as Bungie was believing their own spin about it being for the best of the best. So everything about it drove average players out, and the playlist kept imploding.
The same thing is happening in 6s. It’s just taking longer as Bungie keeps doing things to slow the progression. If it weren’t for cross play diluting out the skill creep like adding Coke to rum or tonic to gin?
The situation would be even worse.
All lobby balancing has done is present the problems of skill creep in a manner that solo high skill players can’t deny anymore. They’re simply getting a taste of the conditions they insist that everyone else play under….
…and they don’t like it either.
English
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Well said
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I actually miss SBMM. I don't mind losing to a superior player. I wouldn't say I'm a great pvper. I'm above average. I do mind the crazy increased amount of games ending in a mercy. One of the reasons the changed away from SBMM was to cut down on queue times. With crossplay that should no longer be an issue. And it's got to be far worse for new lights. I like Crucible. But in its current form it isn't very enjoyable.
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PC would die with SBMM. PC has like 60k hourly players. 25% of which (15k) are usually in PvP, split across 5 playlists. (lets pretend a generous 75% are in control) That means 11,250 are in control. Of that 11,250 about 26% (3k) are in the United States like me. If SBMM is implemented again, and lets say it assigns a numerical skill value to all players, and only matches players +/- 2 standard deviations of skill. The highest skill bracket (2-3 standard deviations above average) would be stuck with a pool of 66 players. If we loosened that up to +/- 3 standard deviations that pool would be 474 players. Now thats assuming all players are queueing at the same exact time. Realistically, if we want to keep a somewhat healthy split of 80% play time (8 minutes) and 20% queue time (2 minutes) , only 20% of those numbers would be available. Otherwise: 13 players in the tight bracket. Or 95 players in the looser bracket. Thats a problem.
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[quote]PC would die with SBMM. PC has like 60k hourly players. 25% of which (15k) are usually in PvP, split across 5 playlists. (lets pretend a generous 75% are in control) That means 11,250 are in control. Of that 11,250 about 26% (3k) are in the United States like me. If SBMM is implemented again, and lets say it assigns a numerical skill value to all players, and only matches players +/- 2 standard deviations of skill. The highest skill bracket (2-3 standard deviations above average) would be stuck with a pool of 66 players. If we loosened that up to +/- 3 standard deviations that pool would be 474 players. Now thats assuming all players are queueing at the same exact time. Realistically, if we want to keep a somewhat healthy split of 80% play time (8 minutes) and 20% queue time (2 minutes) , only 20% of those numbers would be available. Otherwise: 13 players in the tight bracket. Or 95 players in the looser bracket. Thats a problem.[/quote] Hey may I ask where you got these numbers?
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Crucible is dying without it.
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Edited by AccuRAT: 1/19/2022 6:10:52 PMLobby balancing is to blame there. Not CBMM. Can you with a straight face, tell me that the breakdown you just read, seems like a fair, or even functional solution? Please. Tell me honestly that you think that is a functional solution. Even if sbmm magically tripled the playercounts, 13 players only becomes 39 players. Which is still well below the realm of feasability. A 1.3kd player is top 10% in this game (talking about quickplay kd) So even splitting the population 10 ways means that you can easily match players with double or triple your stats. (1.3kd = top 10% could play against 2.6+kd players) So how on earth would sbmm solve anything for anybody outside of the center of the bell curve.
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Indeed. 6s play like trials' 5-7 Game honestly. It’s baffling that this game has no casual mode. It’s actually very strange. I wonder where that started though. I’ve never seen such toxic behavior in any game. I’m not talking bagging and toxic behavior on purpose done by players. It’s like the whole Modus operandi of Destiny’s PvP. Why is it, that everyone is constantly sweating like it’s a 10.000,00€ tournament? Even in public matches. I played D1 and D2 over 4000h each but I can’t pin point where this trend started. Or better, how it started.
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Sixes is supposed to be the casual mode. But that is not how the top players treat it. They treat it like a hunting ground.
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Adapt lol
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Most actually decent players don’t treat it like a hunting ground It’s the weirdos who want to feel better than they are that go in and 6 stack with full meta loadouts all day. Usually they are moderately I above average players with inflated stats from only stacking
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Oh yeah I know that 6s is supposed to be casual it was more of a rethorical thing. I guess the way I worded it isn’t making much sense in English though. Sorry for the confusion
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Edited by hate n payne: 1/17/2022 2:34:35 AMAgreed. It has slowly been getting worse over time since SBMM was removed and it was probably well before that.
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This. Bravo. Couldn't have said it better
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Edited by The Last Squire of Lh'owon: 1/16/2022 7:05:34 PMIt looks like there are some folks in here who can't see the forest because they're too busy staring at the moss on the bark. I completely agree with kellygreen45; ever since CBMM became Bungie's MM method (Season of the Worthy), Control, IB, etc, have become a place just for the really great players. I don't mind that other players are much better at this than I am, and I don't complain they can beat me. We just need something that will separate the two again so that more average players can enjoy PVP again. Separate match types, matches that require a minimum score in Crucible, a return to SBMM... something. Bungie has taken the fun out of PVP for most of its players, and so far, I haven't seen any effort (or even talk) to address that. (But I do see a bunch of complaints in the forums...)
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KELLYGREEN
