Hey man, Bungie didn't promised you "free loot". They promised "loot you can earn". If you are too bad at the game to win a few single rounds within a match instead of the entire match, go back to regular pvp, practice and become better. NBA players and Football players didn't join their leagues without hard training. Same counts for game modes like Trials. That's why it is so special in experience. You will get your loot if you truly earned it. Not by just playing, but by actually winning. I see so many bad players complaining about pvp being to hard, instead of looking at themselfs asking "Maybe I am the problem?"...

Yeah but did nba players get melted by vex mythoclast 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️ just saying

If this game worked like it should I would blow on you and you would explode. But that's not the point. The point I'm trying to make is that right now things appear to be awfully random as far as who gets to the lighthouse and how the drops work. Although the drops are so numerous that the randomness doesn't really matter there and randomness is probably the way to go. But with the lighthouse visits it doesn't really make any logical sense as far as what even you would consider skill in terms of who is getting there. I just think that over the long term there's a chance there's going to be complaints about fairness. Kind of like the mythoclast thing where some people have played who knows how many raids and they don't have it yet and some other people who never play the game play one raid and get to have the gun.

[quote]If this game worked like it should I would blow on you and you would explode.[/quote] Bold words with no proof behind it. Don't claim for stuff you probably can't do anyways. [quote]But that's not the point. The point I'm trying to make is that right now things appear to be awfully random as far as who gets to the lighthouse and how the drops work. Although the drops are so numerous that the randomness doesn't really matter there and randomness is probably the way to go. But with the lighthouse visits it doesn't really make any logical sense as far as what even you would consider skill in terms of who is getting there[/quote] Damn son, noone is forcing you to aim for flawless. You can get every damn gun and armor piece by just playing now in trials. If you want adept weapons, put in the effort and earn them. If you don't like the matchmaking, I wonder how you can actually deal with the chaotic ways of real life... [quote]I just think that over the long term there's a chance there's going to be complaints about fairness. Kind of like the mythoclast thing where some people have played who knows how many raids and they don't have it yet and some other people who never play the game play one raid and get to have the gun.[/quote] Destiny was always like that and always will be like that. The last time we had a "fair experience" it was D2Y1 and people did quit the game in masses because it was boring, not rewarding at all and no stuff to flex with to others. If you don't like unequal progress, then you should not play games with RPG elements altogether, because that is how the genre works. Especially loot shooters like Destiny.

[quote]Damn son, noone is forcing you to aim for flawless.[/quote] That's the thing. Its just random now like a raid weapon drop. I never played trials before and overall it is much better (especially in terms of the movement and shot registration) but something about the fact that it doesn't really seem like people are earning things and are instead a lot of them are getting lucky just doesn't seem right. And with Bungie's "random" someone like me, who has the number of matches that I have and a K/D that's not that much higher than yours even though I'm 10 times better than you, will most likely have to play a lot more matches before I get lucky. That's just not the way something where people are being told they are earning things should work imho. Look overall Trails has been a success, especially when you think about who the game is really supposed to be for, which is basically kids. But combined with the fact that Control is completely broken for me because of some numbers and some other things I'm just a little salty. I shouldn't be expected to be super happy right now even if the overall outcome is a good one. I just think things should work differently in PvP whether this is an RPG game run by RPG people or not. And one of the reasons I think that is because this is only the first weekend. Everyone is of course happy now and there's no reason to take that away from them. But its PvP that's not running like a PvP and in the long term there's going to be problems that come with that too.

[quote]And with Bungie's "random" someone like me, who has the number of matches that I have and a K/D that's not that much higher than yours even though I'm 10 times better than you, will most likely have to play a lot more matches before I get lucky. That's just not the way something where people are being told they are earning things should work imho.[/quote] Wrong. More casuals mean more chances for everyone. Higher skill means higher chances for the better players to win matches in a row. I am just average, yet I managed to get 2 times flawless yesterday, both because of bad players as opponents AND good teamplay against much better players. And yes, even I got clapped a few times by the absolute pvp gods. You are just a number out of thousands, just like me.

Come on. You're playing against solos while you are in a team with communication in an elimination mode. That could not be any more of a softball. And its good because you are winning. Which is all fine and dandy. I just don't think its a good long term strategy. If they come out with that freelance playlist the lower skilled teams in the team playlist are basically going to have it like solos do now. It all relies on people getting to flawless by beating people who don't really stand a chance. Something about it just doesn't seem quite right.

[quote]Come on. You're playing against solos while you are in a team with communication in an elimination mode. That could not be any more of a softball. And its good because you are winning. Which is all fine and dandy. I just don't think its a good long term strategy.[/quote] As I said someone elsewhere here. If you go in solo, you do it at your own damn risk. Go in as a fireteam to improve your chances. [quote]If they come out with that freelance playlist the lower skilled teams in the team playlist are basically going to have it like solos do now. It all relies on people getting to flawless by beating people who don't really stand a chance. Something about it just doesn't seem quite right.[/quote] That is how PvP works, in every game. That is how the principle of Victory works. You can't win a fight without beating your opponent in some way. May it be because they are bad, make more mistakes or go in with less good gear/power. That is how every conflict works. May it be with force or verbally.

[quote]If you go in solo, you do it at your own damn risk. Go in as a fireteam to improve your chances.[/quote] That doesn't change the fact that it all relies on people going in solo. So you should probably be telling everyone to go in solo. [quote]That is how the principle of Victory works. You can't win a fight without beating your opponent in some way. May it be because they are bad, make more mistakes or go in with less good gear/power.[/quote] With this game there's about 80 other things that go into all of that. But I get your point. As long as you win who cares how it happened. Its just kind of cynical in the grand scheme of things. I did get a Vorpal Reed's Regret though. But still, I just can't get over the fact that somewhere KG is probably self-congratulatorily sipping milk to himself.

[quote]That doesn't change the fact that it all relies on people going in solo. So you should probably be telling everyone to go in solo.[/quote] Why? It is their CHOICE. If they want to team up as fireteam, noone is stopping them to do so like everyone else playing as a fireteam. If you have social anxiety, deal with your anxiety first, instead of playing the game. If you want to play alone, think about it being the wrong approach for trials. [quote]As long as you win who cares how it happened. Its just kind of cynical in the grand scheme of things.[/quote] Life is not fair and was never and will never be. Deal with it. [quote]I did get a Vorpal Reed's Regret though. But still, I just can't get over the fact that somewhere KG is probably self-congratulatorily sipping milk to himself.[/quote] And that is EXACTLY how Bungie wants it to be. You got your gun, stop being mad about passed games.

[quote]Why? It is their CHOICE. If they want to team up as fireteam, noone is stopping them to do so like everyone else playing as a fireteam. If you have social anxiety, deal with your anxiety first, instead of playing the game. If you want to play alone, think about it being the wrong approach for trials.[/quote] This is what's wrong with the way its currently set up. You rely on these people to win and then you also blame them while assuming they need to raise their level of social agility up to where you think yours is according to you. And the kicker is, its all fake. You are relying on fakeness to feel better or more socially well adjusted than people when you have no real way of knowing whether or not that's the case. [quote]Life is not fair and was never and will never be. Deal with it.[/quote] You can just start skipping the part with the life lessons. I'm most likely quite a bit older than you and this what you are doing right here is what dudes in their 20s do when they are winging it and trying to pretend like they've seen something. Funny how you will also defend the fakeness in the videogame. No offense. [quote]And that is EXACTLY how Bungie wants it to be.[/quote] I'll agree on this. Its their game, everything is probably going to go how they want it to go. That's basically how things work.

[quote]This is what's wrong with the way its currently set up. You rely on these people and then you also blame them while assuming they need to raise their level of social agility up to where you think yours is according to you. And the kicker is, its all fake. You are relying on fakeness to feel better or more socially well adjusted than people when you have no real way of knowing whether or not that's the case.[/quote] Seriously, are you stupid in some sort? Or are you really that egoistic? Before the changes you NEEDED 3 player fireteams to actually start the game mode. Is it now better or worse with matchmaking, HUH? Destiny 2 is an ONLINE MULTIPLAYER GAME. It is SUPPOSED to be PLAYED with OTHERS. If you want to PLAY SOLO, go PLAY a SINGLE PLAYER GAME. [quote]You can just start skipping the part with the life lessons. I'm most likely quite a bit older than you and this what you are doing right here is what dudes in their 20s do when they are winging it and trying to pretend like they've seen something. Funny how you will also defend the fakeness in the videogame. No offense.[/quote] I don't care if you are older. I won't give you respect for being bad at dealing with losses. If you are a bad loser, don't be surprised if people disagree with your "special snowflake"-complains. If you want to win the most efficient way in Trials, get a team, play with them together and stop complaining. Complaining will not get you winning. Playing less effective than you could will not get you winning all the time. It is completely up to YOU how you approach Trials and how high you want your win chances. Bungie offers you to play alone or with others as pre-made teams. If you are unhappy with that, you are just delusional, egoistic and a Troll to every human with basic brain functions. Alone you can be strong, but together with others you WILL BE stronger. [quote]I'll agree on this. Its their game, everything is probably going to go how they want it to go. That's basically how things work. I'll agree with this[/quote] Then I wonder why are we having this conversation in the first place. If you know this and agree to it, why are you complaining that it is harder to win solo, when there are better options you could use to win. What is preventing you from playing with others as a fireteam? The game for sure does not.

[quote]Seriously, are you stupid in some sort? Or are you really that egoistic?[/quote] I think I'll just let this speak for itself. The only thing I was trying to say is that people are winning because of the solo players. There's no reason to act like there's anything else going on but that. And there's definitely no reason for you to be pretending the reasons that you are winning and others aren't are because of anything other than that. [quote]I don't care if you are older. I won't give you respect for being bad at dealing with losses. If you are a bad loser, don't be surprised if people disagree with your "special snowflake"-complains. If you want to win the most efficient way in Trials, get a team, play with them together and stop complaining.[/quote] I've gotten past the point where I would blame you for thinking like this. This is someone else's fault. [quote]If you are unhappy with that, you are just delusional, egoistic and a Troll to every human with basic brain functions.[/quote] I actually wasn't all that unhappy with it. But the fact that I said so doesn't fit with your fantasy so its whatever. [quote]If you know this and agree to it, why are you complaining that it is harder to win solo, when there are better options you could use to win.[/quote] Because its not a good long term strategy to present something as being about skill when its actually more about random chance and the fact that someone must absolutely be seen as being less eligible by other people, many of whom only end up causing problems when they get their brains massaged in certain manner. I never said I wasn't going to play in a fireteam. And for the most part I'm not only talking about what I want. I'm talking about basically the multiplication of thought processes such as yours. I'm not exactly sure if that's what they should want long term.

[quote]The only thing I was trying to say is that people are winning because of the solo players.[/quote] Ok, let us deconstruct that argument. If I win against a random team of 3 solo players, I won because they played worse. If I win against a pre-made team of 3, I won because they played worse. There is nothing else going on there. Both teams have the same chances. They are 3 players in a team, they can play very well and/or very bad together. The only difference there is, how they did team up. If you use matchmaking, you do it at your very own risk. Read again Bungies [url=https://www.bungie.net/de/Explore/Detail/News/50561]Article[/url]. They specifically said that going flawless solo will be nearly impossible. Also, take especially a look at the "Development goals". [quote]I actually wasn't all that unhappy with it. But the fact that I said so doesn't fit with your fantasy so its whatever.[/quote] I was speaking in pluarl, not you specifically. English is a tricky language sometimes, especially for not-natives. [quote]Because its not a good long term strategy to present something as being about skill when its actually more about random chance and the fact that someone must absolutely be seen as being less eligible by other people, many of whom only end up causing problems when they get their brains massaged in certain manner.[/quote] Scientists would call that "Natural Selection" or "Evolution" or "how life works"... Fairness is a subjective experience from Humans. When you take a look at all of humanities past, it was always like that. We invented stuff because of lucky incidents or ideas we got because of lucky events happening (for example Newton asking himself why and what Gravity is, when the apple landed on his head while studying under an apple tree). If you think that Trials should be about true skill, then just look at how it was before the rework. People stopped playing very quickly because they realized it is too hard for them to achieve victory. People started looking for stat completitions and flawless run numbers and started also paying people for carrying them or actually playing on their account. This season Bungie made Trials A LOT more accessible for all type of players... And people still complain? And someone like you saying "this is a bad strategy" when it actually keeps the playlist populated to have no fireteam requirement, no lose points on tickets anymore and basically Ascendant Shard drop chances on winning 7+ matches on your card? And I ask again... PEOPLE STILL COMPLAIN? Seriously, how is Trials in its current state "not perfect" compared to the elitist-skill creep-shitshow we had before???

[quote] If I win against a pre-made team of 3, I won because they played worse. There is nothing else going on there. Both teams have the same chances. [/quote] Then why weren't people making it to the lighthouse and celebrating before there was solo matchmaking. You are saying the things you are because you are winning now. If you weren't winning you'd most likely be saying something else. That's one of this game's biggest problems. Inconsistency being an answer to everything. I know they said it would be impossible. That's not what I'm talking about. All I'm saying is that people would not be winning as much if other people weren't playing solo. And over the long term that's most likely going to cause some issues, especially with the way some people in the Destiny community choose to have very selective hearing. [quote]Scientists would call that "Natural Selection" or "Evolution" [/quote] There's nothing in this game that can in any way be compared to evolution of natural selection. Please don't let yourself believe that the things that happen with this game are anything other than the result of the people who make the decisions. I'm fine with Trials being however really. Elimination is just not my favorite way to play Destiny so I honestly don't have all that much of an opinion on the way it should work. Again, all I was trying to say is that there's a chance that over the long term, once the party dies down, some people may not be as happy as they are now. That and if freelance takes off its basically going to be like survival with the people quitting after losing one round and shooting each other for not doing well. And the team playlist will be right back to tyranny of the elo. Its fine if it runs on luck but, and this is with more than just this game, I just don't like when people conflate luck with skill or hard work. Its just not the way something that's being called competitive should run imho. Especially not in every single playlist. [quote]And someone like you saying "this is a bad strategy" when it actually keeps the playlist populated to have no fireteam requirement, no lose points on tickets anymore and basically Ascendant Shard drop chances on winning 7+ matches on your card?[/quote] Did I not say that trials is way better than it was before? I also think I said that its not just trials its the whole, what I consider to be cynical, approach to PvP. All the fun right now is relying on something that may or may not pan out well over time. That's all I was trying to say. Its actually somewhat more complicated what I was trying to say. Because I do have an idea of how matchmaking works in this game and I know that if I play enough my chances of going flawless, even while solo, will most likely increase. But most people don't know that. My problem with the way it works is that those people that don't know that are most likely going to be given a free ride while some of us have to play a million matches losing to players that we may be better than at the game. And that would be fine too if it wasn't also portrayed as being more about skill than it actually is. But that's just me, and like I said how trials works is not necessarily that big of a deal to me. Its trials combined with some other things that have taken place, some of which don't have anything to do with PvP at all, that kind of gives me a little pause. I'd have to type way too much more to get into all that stuff though.

[quote]Then why weren't people making it to the lighthouse and celebrating before there was solo matchmaking.[/quote] Skill creep. Bad people got no rewards, stopped playing, reducing the player pool. Average players got no rewards because not winning, stopped playing, reducing the player pool. And so on. A better explanation you can find in Ascendant Nomads Video [url=https://youtu.be/liCwNA2btTI]here[/url] [quote]You are saying the things you are because you are winning now. If you weren't winning you'd most likely be saying something else[/quote] I do. And it is totally justified. Why? Because people of my skill bracket are the average players in pvp. We are the majority of the crucible player population. People below our skill level are the people that are bad in pvp by default due to not trying to become better or not even bothering (to play). People above my skill level are the better ones, the fewer ones in pvp. People like me are the biggest playerbase within the PvP overall playerpool. We play, we have bad games, we have good games. We win and lose in equal amounts. We are "the middle ground", if you want so. [quote]I know they said it would be impossible. That's not what I'm talking about. All I'm saying is that people would not be winning as much if other people weren't playing solo. And over the long term that's most likely going to cause some issues, especially with the way some people in the Destiny community choose to have very selective hearing.[/quote] And that is how things are and always will be. We may loose a few hundred players but overall more people will play consistently every weekend than before the rework, keeping the playlist alive. [quote]There's nothing in this game that can in any way be compared to evolution of natural selection. Please don't let yourself believe that the things that happen with this game are anything other than the result of the people who make the decisions.[/quote] You make the mistake to see everything through tinted glass, as some would say. PvP was always about adapting over your oppoents, no matter if skill wise or gear wise. The game franchise massively evolved over the time of 7 Years, improving on mistakes over and over again. That is evolution, tho it is not biological (something you not consider from my PoV). [quote]Elimination is just not my favorite way to play Destiny so I honestly don't have all that much of an opinion on the way it should work[/quote] Neither it is my favourite game mode. But the difference is I know when a game mode sucks for me because of me and not because of the game itself. People disliked Countdown immensely. I loved it. Was the game mode bad? No. Did people not like it because of the way it did not work well with the people playing it? Absolutely. [quote]That and if freelance takes off its basically going to be like survival with the people quitting after losing one round and shooting each other for not doing well. And the team playlist will be right back to tyranny of the elo.[/quote] Very pessimistic views you have. I would probably say you are right... If we would have already week 4 of Trials of Osiris and not Week 1 with you making a kind-off Prophecy out of it. [quote]Its fine if it runs on luck but, and this is with more than just this game, I just don't like when people conflate luck with skill or hard work. Its just not the way something that's being called competitive should run imho. Especially not in every single playlist.[/quote] The playlist is competitive because of the rule-set and game mode. Not because of the people playing it. That's a difference. [quote]My problem with the way it works is that those people that don't know that are most likely going to be given a free ride while some of us have to play a million matches losing to players that we may be better than at the game.[/quote] I possibly have gotten what you said wrong. However, we do not know yet. And I strongly think you are wrong with your expectations for the future. People say since years Destiny is "dying" and Crucible is "trash" and still people play. There are no mechanics that do intensify skill creep anymore, since even bloody casuals can get rewards by having the luck of getting good team mates via Matchmaking and loosing no progress. All it does takes is longer the less good you are as a player yourself (and your random team mates).

I am all for the way its currently working. It works far better than it did before. That doesn't change the fact that its basically a scenario that's much like year one when they told people they better play on a team or they were going to be miserable. That didn't pan out too well. [quote]We may loose a few hundred players but overall more people will play consistently every weekend than before the rework, keeping the playlist alive.[/quote] You and I both know that this is going to come down to how much loot they provide through the playlist. A good portion of this playerbase is not going to keep playing it just to go flawless or get rolls that they don't want repeatedly. [quote]But the difference is I know when a game mode sucks for me because of me and not because of the game itself.[/quote] No, you most definitely don't. [quote]Very pessimistic views you have. I would probably say you are right... If we would have already week 4 of Trials of Osiris and not Week 1 with you making a kind-off Prophecy out of it.[/quote] Its not a prophecy its based on how every single other thing they've ever put in the game has worked. [quote]The playlist is competitive because of the rule-set and game mode. Not because of the people playing it. That's a difference.[/quote] Its competitive enough. But if that player pop starts to fall it will definitely turn into tyranny of the elo really quick. They are going to have to keep adding weapons and if they do everything will probably be fine. [quote]People say since years Destiny is "dying" and Crucible is "trash" and still people play.[/quote] I'm not saying anything is dying. I'm not that dumb. People are still playing Gambit so I'm not saying anything in this game isn't good enough to keep enough people playing for the mode to exist. Its just that it may, and I have been saying may and might, lead to similar circumstances as we've seen in the past. Like I said, the weapons and other rewards are going to be key to its success. As I think I've said, they did do a really good job on the mode. That in itself doesn't always stop what happens with the people who play this game sometimes. But anywho, I'm starting too feel like I'm being to much of a downer on what should otherwise be a time of celebration and, the mode is a success overall. They just better not rest on their laurels because even though they did the right thing with really identifying and catering to their target audience that audience is one that will turn on them in a second. So the weapons and rewards better keep pumping profusely.

[quote]You and I both know that this is going to come down to how much loot they provide through the playlist. A good portion of this playerbase is not going to keep playing it just to go flawless or get rolls that they don't want repeatedly.[/quote] Now, that is a completely different story. And if I am not mistaken with Witch Queen we will get new armor sets, because the current ones were live for an entire year then... But I do agree for new guns. We still have no single grenade launcher, no bow and then no Glaive on WQ release... [quote]No, you most definitely don't.[/quote] That's not on you to decide ;) [quote]Its not a prophecy its based on how every single other thing they've ever put in the game has worked.[/quote] You probably also forgot all the good things that worked out for years all the time, right? Like Umbral Engram focusing. Or the Champion System to make activities harder. Or Raids having cooler mechanics than before. Exotics becoming more complex and so on. There are so many things done right in the game as stuff not done right. [quote]So the weapons and rewards better keep pumping profusely.[/quote] Hopefully.

[quote]That's not on you to decide ;)[/quote] All I know is its not going to be me who is going to be playing these teams that move faster and do more damage. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. I just played a match and I'd be surprised if it becomes anything more than 50 rounds and out for most people who play solo. That's why I'm hoping they have more weapons coming because I don't even play Trials and I already have everything I want. That last match that I just played. People are not going to keep playing something like that. And I'm not about to be the fool to make up for the fact that they won't just because I have a ton of matches. For what its worth, I'm one of the ones who has always thought there is far more good than bad in this game Anywho, I'm about to try teams for the first time. So I guess we'll see how this goes.

[quote]That's why I'm hoping they have more weapons coming because I don't even play Trials and I already have everything I want.[/quote] Well, I am glad I have an alternative now to nightfall grinding for upgrade mats. Wins with a 7-win ticket has a very high chance to drop cores, a high chance to drop prisms and trials engrams and a mediocre chance to drop Ascendant shards. I got like 3 this weekend within 2h playing with a full ticket. [quote]Anywho, I'm about to try teams for the first time. So I guess we'll see how this goes.[/quote] Have fun and good luck.