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5/24/2021 5:31:41 PM
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I know.
I’m dealing with many of the gatekeepers on another thread.
I dared to suggest that the oracle changes were unnecessary and will mainly act to exclude newer players.
And here we go.
And how the “raiding community” here just lashed out with insults and insisting that I was only complaining because I “want it easy” (Never mind that I’ve done Atheon Challenge mode...on HARD...so no revives at all...in D1).
They ironically proved my point in their blind haste to disprove and delegitimize it.
Sad.
English
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Luckily I know how to count to 7. So the Oracle changes aren’t difficult to me. If anything, I feel like it adds more of a challenge, and makes the Oracles an actual mechanic rather than just a small nuisance.
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Nice hot take i guess? Every raid technically has new mechanics, are those meant to exclude newer players? You continue to confuse me.
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VoG is a unique case. In that you have a reissued raid, that is being given out free to the all players. ....and a community of veteran players who know the raids very well, and are in a position to teach. This was a missed opportunity to expand the raiding community. It just seems that this isn't a priority with Bungie.
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I’m not sure what else bungie can do to expand the raiding community. Guided raids failed spectacularly and that was the closest to matchmade raids we will ever get. I think you have too high expectations for bungie. Vog was meant to be a re-release of a beloved raid, and more so be a raid you can bring your friend through to get them into d2 without buying dlc. It does its job.
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[quote]It does its job.[/quote] Barely....and in a way that is arguably malicious compliance.
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re-release of a beloved (d1 reprise) raid- check free for your friend who doesnt normally play d2 but you want to bring them into a raid- check idk how that’s malicious compliance?
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Randomly teleporting people into the portal who have to shoot Oracles in a specific order or else the team wipes? Fail.
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thats how the original raid worked bud. reworked oracles just makes it a bit harder.
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That’s not how the original raid worked. The Destiny 2 version is a variation on a raid challenge.
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in atheon encounter, 3 people randomly teleported. reworked oracles makes the encounter harder.
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But were free to shoot the oracles in whatever order in the base raid. The challenge was the combat, and keeping people cleansed somthey could see to shoot. Sequence didn’t become an issue until the Atheon Challenge during Age of Triumph. The challenge of being able to only shoot one Oracle forced you to have to get your entire team in and out of the portal, keep track of who is shooting which Oracle, and do it fast enough so that the Oracles don’t wipe you. The D2 Atheon fight is a simplified version of the raid challenge. Which, as I keep saying, doesn’t make it appreciably harder for veteran VoG raiders. But it is a nasty stiff arm to new players wanting to get in and learn the raid. Put a first time player in that role? Your raid will fall apart.
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I’ve done d2 atheon quite a few times with new players, its not that hard once people get the rhythm.
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Edited by YeahMatt: 5/27/2021 5:49:41 PMYeah, you have to learn a mechanic. Go figure. It's not even a hard one. I've even seen more players get these oracles down way easier/quicker than the D1 Atheon challenge, which also was not a hard mechanic. Some people just can't handle raiding in any capacity. Even the easiest raids don't get through some skulls.
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I actually like them in the oracles encounter and atheon. Its more exciting then just sitting out there and waiting in d1.
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Lol people hate you so much. So youre opinionated who cares. I also hate the oracle changes. If the raid had shipped as it was day 1 i highly doubt people would have been sad. If anything they should be happy they get easier loot. I dont get the obsession with people championing bungies strategy of "convoluted = best way to increase challenge." I get wanting a challenge but they still need to keep casuals in mind. Its not like its trials.
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Agreed.
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1. I have the nasty habit of shooting people’s sacred cows, and pointing to Elephants in the Living Room. It tends to make you unpopular with those whose comfort zone you’re disturbing. Oh, well.... 2. The reason why is status. Games like this are as much a [i]social system[/i] as it is a game. So in any social system there tends to be a hierarchy and perceived status associated with wher you are in the pecking order. In the Destiny 2 pecking order, casuals and open-world/“patrol” players are at the bottom. So they frequently get mocked by those who see themselves as having higher status. Next rung up are dedicated players, nightfall players, and dungeon runners. The top of the pve pyramid are raiders. But in any situation where there is status and privilege perceived as coming with being in a group? The stays is linked to exclusivity, and inclusiveness will debated its perceived value for many. This is why you see all the gatekeeping, and hostility towards any changes to let raiding be more inclusive. This is why you see the haste towards judgment and mockery of anyone who tries to advocate for inclusion. I can practically hear the [i]”How Dare You, Sir? How Dare You[/i]’s.
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It also comes across as "matter of fact" so they say when you list your reasoning. Just because you have a lot to say. Because rather than read everything you have to say people would rather see someone respond "bro git gud." Because that takes less effort. You have a strong opinion and write novels to defend it. Which is fine because i do the exact same. I personally started engaging with you realizing i would get an actual discussion instead of the aforementioned "git gud" statements. Sometimes i agree with you, Sometimes i dont. As people do. And thats fine.
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Fine with me, too. No one has to agree with me....and on many of these issues there is no objective right or wrong. Just personal preference.
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👍 yup
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As you say though, its just your "suggestion" that the changes are uneccessary. But that doesnt mean its true. I say they are great. Whos right? Both of us. Because things are subjective. But its because you state things as so matter of fact, and as if your opinion is always right, that you get so much pushback. Facts.
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Raiding community =pve community
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Edited by CoolUsername321: 5/25/2021 11:45:13 PM[quote]I know. I’m dealing with many of the gatekeepers on another thread. I dared to suggest that the oracle changes were unnecessary and will mainly act to exclude newer players. And here we go. And how the “raiding community” here just lashed out with insults and insisting that I was only complaining because I “want it easy” (Never mind that I’ve done Atheon Challenge mode...on HARD...so no revives at all...in D1). They ironically proved my point in their blind haste to disprove and delegitimize it. Sad.[/quote] Sad indeed I have done the new version and all the changes really feel useless... like I get the champions and wyrens but why the Oracle?
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But the changes are pretty logical? The oracle encounter makes more sense now and with fewer rounds it all feels more concise and intentional in my opinion. It’s hardly as obscene as people are making out. I agree that gatekeeping is bad but it usually comes from people being precious about something. Endgame is supposed to be the most challenging of all content, I hardly think it’s fair to chastise anyone who think it should remain that way.
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It’s not an issue for experienced players. They know the fights well, so they can simply focus their attention on the oracles. But to new players, this could easily become an overwhelming task. Because of the added pressure of trying to learn the fights at the same. As I’ve been saying it isn’t make the fight too difficult in general. It’s making the raid less accessible to new players for little benefit to vets like me. I don’t feel that the benefits of the change are worth the costs to accessibility.
