I agree that pvp players deserve to enjoy the game as well, however that enjoyment shouldn't come at the expense of other players to the point of turning the game into complete misery. Pvp has its place but I whole heartedly disagree with the notion that "farming noobs" is acceptable by any gaming standards. I know I'm not a great pvp player. Never have been, nor do I expect to be as I don't find enjoyment in pvp on any game. Its not why I play. Yet time and again I'm put into positions where I must play pvp to advance quests or triumphs or weapons. I firmly believe there should be two paths, one a pve only path and another pvp one to everything loot wise. Even if its the same gear, which it should be, those options should exist in a game like this. And btw the standby of pvp players saying "No, git gud" doesn't phase me. I don't need to get good at pvp. I have no desire to as I have nothing to prove in an online venue that has no impact on me except how I spend my leisure time. But those are just my views. And I'm sure I will get the standard responses from pvp players telling me to go f myself. So go for it. I will be amused.

[quote]Actually destiny2 was never that way it was always skill except for one time some argue two but give no proof. It wasnt till arrivals that bungie gave in to the whining and brought in the farm simulator that is cbmm. Which is why pvp has fallen these last 3 seasons.[/quote] I miss sbmm. I'm not a super amazing pvp'er, but I can hold my own and have done survival carries and helped friends. That being said, i can hold my own and am above average, and someone less skilled than me probably thought I was a streamer. Because of reasons mentioned above I why sbmm is better... So everyone improves and can have a challenge.