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Edited by Olórin:
4/15/2021 10:56:13 PM
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As someone who loves using Wish-Ender, i agree.
- Box Breathing/Archers Tempo for its Catalyst please and thank you.
Also, Last Word and Thorn need some love too these days, Catalysts would be a nod in the right direction imo.
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Combination of archers tempo and gambit would be a awesome catalyst for wishender
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Thorn absolutely.. Last word - just for it to be usable on mnk would be nice. Its like it purposefully misses bullets. Now look at deadmans.
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Yeah Last Word is rather finicky with its bullets, i dont quite get it tbh, i still feel like it should have hip fire stability that of DMT when an opponent is within close proximity.
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Yeah, have an accuracy cone with a stern drop off. As it stands it isn't useable at all.
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I love that bow but it's so slow it needs archer tempo and improved hip fire accuracy
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Edited by Olórin: 4/15/2021 10:51:35 PM[quote]I love that bow but it's so slow it needs archer tempo and improved hip fire accuracy[/quote] Hmm, In my opinion I feel that Wish-Ender is supposed to be slow nocking speed for its set up and wall hacks. Idk about hip fire since it's pretty accurate base stats but Archers tempo could be a shout you know, the first thing you'd aim for with Queens Wrath proc'd is the head, archers tempo would help clean the kill. My current set up is Wish-Ender + Igneous Hammer + Ophidian Aspect, my favourite set up so far tbh, OA are just too great at what they do where they help me clean up kills from a Wish-Ender shot and Igneous Hammer clean up with Rampage perk to carry on the streak. Dont think I'd swap anything out for a while unless I'm playing higher Level PvE. Still I agree, Archers tempo would help a ton and make sense gameplay wise.
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Last word never needs more love... perpetually broken gun
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I havent seen a Last Word for a while, broken in your eyes how so may i ask?
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Personally, from what I've seen, Last Word is broken in the way that, there is no middle ground. It's either a force of devastation, or it's meh. Right now, it's meh.
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Edited by Olórin: 4/15/2021 10:58:31 PMYeah the middle ground is difficult with Last Word, I feel like maybe it could be influenced to being a close ranged weapon with a catalyst. How's about this, Last Word gains a Stability HipFire+Damage buff when enemies are in close proximity, sort of like Surrounded but the damage buff procs as long as at least 1 person is in close proximity. This would stir it away from ranged buffs and will have a place within SMG ranged weapons.
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Edited by Fox: 4/15/2021 11:00:21 PMI dunno about that, because range is Last Word's big issue. Damage wise it's fine, but it hits like a wet noodle at a distance. More damage at close range would let it delete people. Now, sure that'd make it worth using, but then we have a shotgun meta in the shape of a handcannon. If it were up to me, I'd just give it more stability and quicker recoil recovery so it shoots better. Maybe a range buff on kill.
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Edited by Olórin: 4/15/2021 11:07:15 PMI mean I don't want the Last Word to be gaining range though imo. I always felt it was a short to mid ranged weapon so Shotguns/SMGs are it's biggest rivals and we all know which weapon is winning that fight from the three. I just feel if it gains a Stability buff for hip fire + Damage for close proximity combat then that's generally where the weapon would shine and where it should shine from the start. Idk about adding range to the best TTK weapon in the game 🤔 it's just an awkward weapon to balance tbh.
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See? This is exactly what I mean. We've both got good ideas, but both of them could make Last Word just annihilate AGAIN. A damage buff would be brutal, honestly. Any player who can shoot relatively straight wouldn't really be worth challenging in close quarters, and that's coming from someone who takes on Shotgunners with MIDA Mini-tool.
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Edited by Olórin: 4/15/2021 11:18:03 PMI agree but honestly I don't mean a damage buff to be timed, I just mean once no one is in the vicinity then that's it the damage buff is gone, until someone enters the proximity and they have to be close. I just mean for it to compete close range which is difficult since it's currently going through a shotgun meta. Shotgunner aren't gods, I'll admit they are very strong but it would give The Last Word a place in where it should shine which is in close to mid range imo. SMG's are super fun now so that's the only weapon type I'm worried may fall behind if that were to happen. I see the idea as more of a counter play for aping shotgunners, rather than something that can be used to push players, unless you can hit nothing but heads with 8 bullets I just can't see it and if someone can tap heads with all 8 bullets then I think they may literally be a god lol 🤔
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A damage buff of any kind to Last Word might honestly break it. I understand what you're going for, but Bungie have made buffs like that before and we've abused the shit out of it. I mean, look at 120's. They were supposed to be helped a little, now they're everywhere. Honestly, the only thing I can see not completely tilting this gun one way or the other is an outright chunk of stability, but who knows? Maybe they will give it surrounded. Maybe my worries are completely baseless. I have no idea.
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12 rounds in the mag is all it needs tbh
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Edited by Olórin: 4/15/2021 11:28:37 PMYeah I'd be down for a stability buff but man i feel like it struggles so much that whenever I see it in its own Optimal range I still end up winning the duel which doesn't sit right to me tbh. It's weird to me how DMT has a better hip fire stability than Last Word imo lol unless you're on M&K that is. Im not asking for a DMT type precision bonus perk but that buff would be breaking it imo which is why I felt a proximity buff would be better but idk the gun is just forever meh now lol
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Edited by Fox: 4/15/2021 11:27:34 PMTo me, that just sounds like you outplayed the user, or they got flinched and missed. The damn gun's just in such a weird spot though.
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Edited by Olórin: 4/15/2021 11:30:59 PMNah honestly, I'd take a Last Word user in their optimal range than a Astral/Felwinter In a mid ranged encounter, it's crazy lol
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Oh yeah, don't get me wrong. I'm sick of being shotgunned in general. I do better with double primary, so it's hard to counter some ape with a boomstick. I'd take a busted Last Word over any shotgun honestly. Except maybe Chaperone, but that's a different story.
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Ahh I have respect for slug users though, it requires some form of aim and Chaperon is a great gun so I really can't fault it. I rarely go nuts on the game or in general since it's just not how I am but I'd be lying to myself if I said Shotgun apers are not a problem which I feel isn't an issue with nerfs or Buffs but that's a case of Map size, if we had larger maps we would have different shift in weapon usage imo.
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I don't really know if map size would help, honestly. I mean, shotgunners will find ways to just blow you away regardless. Corner camping, invisibility, titan slip and slide. Honestly, I'm doing fine with scouts. Shotguns just feel too easy, considering the best shotguns have killed me consistently as my SMG's range begins to dtop.
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Edited by Olórin: 4/16/2021 8:37:58 AMNah honestly if we had some of the larger and open spaced maps that D1 had then scouts and snipers would definitely be the goto loadout which im fine with since people would have to shift their loadouts to the appropriate map size. If someone is still using shotguns on a larger map then they should be punished for it, if they still manage to somehow get close on a large open space then... Someone's not hitting their shots lol At least with a different mix of maps we would have to think about what loadout would suit the current map you spawn on.
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Yeah, I'd like some bigger maps to push loadout diversity.
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How much pvp do you play? It's still toxic in pvp given the range bump for hand cannons. I run into it at least every 5 or 6 games....def not as bad as slide shotty overlords, but not cool.
