But Shotguns typically have point blank ONLY range - not 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 metres for a reliable OHK. AND they typically have slow handling not being able to be whipped out quicker than greased lightning. It's an easy fix. So is restoring some competition for Special weapons.

Shotgun 1hit kill is 7.5 meters with Felwinters and a real life shotgun is 45 meters according to google. Which sounds crazy.

Fellwinters needs a range nerf, not a big one, and shotguns do what they are supposed to but waaaay to easy to no brain shotgun, especially with the stasis meta theres got to be some mid point with the perks maybe or increasing bullet spread if your getting shot while aping for the kill, like sniper flinch increase the spread if shot whilst rushing

[quote]Fellwinters needs a range nerf, not a big one, and shotguns do what they are supposed to but waaaay to easy to no brain shotgun, especially with the stasis meta theres got to be some mid point with the perks maybe or increasing bullet spread if your getting shot while aping for the kill, like sniper flinch increase the spread if shot whilst rushing[/quote] You’d still complain. 8 meters isn’t insanely far. You’re letting ppl in to close. This is a you problem

No people run in close as i shoot them to the edge of death knowing they can get a OHK off faster than my primaries ttk would alow me to kill im, you can litterally spounge and close the gap, yet you fail to comprehend i dont have an issue with range that much, maybe just fellwinters, im complaing about shotguns not needing any skill to win gunfights they have no business winning, there should be a spread penalty if you aprouch me and i rail you, i can only bactrack so fast whilst in ads with any weapon where as you can rush and spounge and get that hipfire off, thats not skill or a me thing, its a no skill aping thing, i can shotgun the sh@t out of every noob i want to just as well as the next gaurdian but its just not fun especially knowing i aped and got kills that i certainly shouldnt have, again im saying like any gun there should be a penalty for mindless play and reward for skillfull play, fusions have charge time, snipers have flinch when hit, why cant shotguns have a penalty in bullet spread if you are being shot whilst aping for that OHK. If you flank me and you are in range or close to optimum range when i engage you then yes thats on me, if half the people are really that good at using a shotgun rewarding skilled play and penalizing brainless play wouldnt be an issue right or might that just bring a few people back to earth

[quote]No people run in close as i shoot them to the edge of death knowing they can get a OHK off faster than my primaries ttk would alow me to kill im, you can litterally spounge and close the gap, yet you fail to comprehend i dont have an issue with range that much, maybe just fellwinters, im complaing about shotguns not needing any skill to win gunfights they have no business winning, there should be a spread penalty if you aprouch me and i rail you, i can only bactrack so fast whilst in ads with any weapon where as you can rush and spounge and get that hipfire off, thats not skill or a me thing, its a no skill aping thing, i can shotgun the sh@t out of every noob i want to just as well as the next gaurdian but its just not fun especially knowing i aped and got kills that i certainly shouldnt have, again im saying like any gun there should be a penalty for mindless play and reward for skillfull play, fusions have charge time, snipers have flinch when hit, why cant shotguns have a penalty in bullet spread if you are being shot whilst aping for that OHK. If you flank me and you are in range or close to optimum range when i engage you then yes thats on me, if half the people are really that good at using a shotgun rewarding skilled play and penalizing brainless play wouldnt be an issue right or might that just bring a few people back to earth[/quote] Then stop adsing when you’re being rushed. You shouldn’t be doing that anyway. I use a shotgun defensively. Take my last match. And had 17 dire kills and 3 Felwinter kills. Some of us do main primaries but that doesn’t mean I won’t put you down with a shotty if you get too close. But go ahead, nerf Felwinters I’ll just switch to a CQC or a Retold that will do the same thing. As for the “apers”, they’re just going to find the next best thing to ape you with. Then you’re still going to be complaining about that.

Dont ads while being rushed, okay so i should just run away then, which gun consistently hits every shot when hipfiring making the ttk optimal so as to kill someone before they get the shot off, oh yeah wait shotguns, what primary will do that? If i want to reliably hit my shots with most any primary i have to ads, if i just stop ads and hope to get in some shots the gap will still be closed anyway just with less bullets hitting translating to me running and the shotgunner still aping after me, that makes no sense and you know that, the only counter is shotgunning the ape back because theres no real risk or as much risk for the shotgunner to just aimlessly rush, if you have the spread penalty while being shit it would make the risk reward a bit better, i have a chance to finish off my kill or you can kill me with a second shot or melee anyways but itll give the person railing the ape a fair chance, where as if the shotgunner flanks and is on you by the time you realize, no spread gets the OHK reward for finesse shotgun play and a deserved kill

[quote]Dont ads while being rushed, okay so i should just run away then, which gun consistently hits every shot when hipfiring making the ttk optimal so as to kill someone before they get the shot off, oh yeah wait shotguns, what primary will do that? If i want to reliably hit my shots with most any primary i have to ads, if i just stop ads and hope to get in some shots the gap will still be closed anyway just with less bullets hitting translating to me running and the shotgunner still aping after me, that makes no sense and you know that, the only counter is shotgunning the ape back because theres no real risk or as much risk for the shotgunner to just aimlessly rush, if you have the spread penalty while being shit it would make the risk reward a bit better, i have a chance to finish off my kill or you can kill me with a second shot or melee anyways but itll give the person railing the ape a fair chance, where as if the shotgunner flanks and is on you by the time you realize, no spread gets the OHK reward for finesse shotgun play and a deserved kill[/quote] The last word does this pretty well. 0.56 ttk baby, I destroy all the shotgun apes. I’d be fine with this change it’ll only make my purely anti shotgun strategy easier.

Hahaha yeah that guns always helped but i dont purely wana run loadouts just to fend of apes, i think its fair, same principle as snipers, you cant keep a steady hand/aim while being shot, why can you still reliably hipfire very accurately with a shotgun with almost no downside, thats why its become a primary in most players arsenals

Yeah I agree something needs to change as a vast majority of the population won’t use anything else because there is no point to. I do not envy bungie’s position for having to deal with this balancing change. But honestly, other than shotguns and outliers like arbalest, I think the gun play in d2 is the best it’s ever been. Seriously screw arbalest

Yeah no i dont really mind shotguns, they are not really in a bad place, closest they had them to balanced in while if you check most previous shotgun metas, all it needs is that little downside to make the ape think twice about spounge rushing and still coming off with a kill that took no skill or strategy which may make some players rethink their srat or loadout

Absolutely, It doesn’t help that so many strong abilities in the game rn couple perfectly with a shotgun as well.

Cough Cough Stasis hunters...... lol and thats coming from a huntet main😂😂😂

[quote]Cough Cough Stasis hunters...... lol and thats coming from a huntet main😂😂😂[/quote] Listen man I wasn’t gonna say it 😂.... titans with slideways and super slide think they’re slick too.

[quote]Dont ads while being rushed, okay so i should just run away then, which gun consistently hits every shot when hipfiring making the ttk optimal so as to kill someone before they get the shot off, oh yeah wait shotguns, what primary will do that? If i want to reliably hit my shots with most any primary i have to ads, if i just stop ads and hope to get in some shots the gap will still be closed anyway just with less bullets hitting translating to me running and the shotgunner still aping after me, that makes no sense and you know that, the only counter is shotgunning the ape back because theres no real risk or as much risk for the shotgunner to just aimlessly rush, if you have the spread penalty while being shit it would make the risk reward a bit better, i have a chance to finish off my kill or you can kill me with a second shot or melee anyways but itll give the person railing the ape a fair chance, where as if the shotgunner flanks and is on you by the time you realize, no spread gets the OHK reward for finesse shotgun play and a deserved kill[/quote] If you’re honestly adsing primaries when you’re being aped then you’re doing it wrong! That’s on you. You don’t have to run away. Hip firing is a very viable option if you’re out of special. LoL

7m though.... that’s not far off melee range and people complain... 🤦🏼‍♂️