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10/21/2020 6:47:45 PM
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There’s probably some line in some lore card you had to do some offhand thing to get that explains it.
Until a couple days ago, I didn’t even know Variks was the one who caused the prison break in forsaken. Seems like a pretty big plot point not to mention through the games story.
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Maybe there will be a plot twist inside a plot twist. Who knows?
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Nobody knew who started it, hence it was not in the story
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Seems like a pretty big plot point to leave out. That’s just me I guess though.
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No, that’s not just you. It IS a big plot point due to having direct influence over an occurrence the main plot of Forsaken. None of the characters knew about it, but you as a player do know because you read about it in a lore card. And somehow that equals good storytelling in some fanboy’s head apparently.
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The way i see, you didnt need to know who started it. The story of forsaken was about getting revenge on uldren. You dont need to know how he escaped the prison to shoot his face.
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Edited by Hesh: 10/22/2020 1:52:29 PMI'm very sorry, but I don't care about how YOU see it. I care about how it IS. And how it IS is that something that had direct influence over the plot of Forsaken was relegated to a page in a book somewhere. You DO need to know so that the internal logic of the plot remains intact. It is a detail that adds context that they relayed poorly. That's already a mistake. So they've already completely screwed the execution of that, which means that if Variks is dragging his raggedy ass back into gear, there's going to have to be some sort of scenario where the irredeemable act he committed gets brought into the light. This is going to be extremely difficult to pull off due to the fact that we as players already know what he did, but the jackasses in-universe don't. And I can already bet on how Bungo's gonna measure up! Besides, you SAY the story of Forsaken is about getting revenge on Uldren, and yet, it also pulls itself apart at the seams trying to be about the Dreaming City all of a sudden and Riven and Savathun and a time loop curse. Does Bungo even consider that all other stuff as part of the story of Forsaken? Who knows! Will they ever actually be consistent for once? Who knows! Maybe they'll actually let us know when they establish a real through-line! Oh but wait. They can't do that! How else would they be able to throw a buncha random things together otherwise? See, this is why looking at the bigger picture helps. You should try it.
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You dont need to know HOW uldren escaped. Its a detail. Bungie could have come with any other excuse for him to escape. He escaped, and thats the point. Its not a big plot point.
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Except that it is, because it is literally the inciting incident that gets things rolling, and is even more important now because the guy that we know is responsible is going to come into the fray. It's a detail. A detail predicated on the actions of another character, who then goes on to have nothing to do with the plot of Forsaken, even though he's the guy that started the inciting incident. And even after, the in-universe jackasses don't even bother with trying to find out just how the riot started, and the player is supposed to find this out whenever they bother checking the lore card. They could have come up with any other excuse for how they broke out, which would have been better, but they didn't. So that has to be covered whether they like or not. This is already terrible execution simply because rather than bothering to weave Variks and his actions into the narrative, they shoved it into a page. It IS bad storytelling. You can ignore whatever you wish. It won't change anything.
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I bet u a big plot point in beyond light is variks telling our character himself he "helped" with uldren' s escape. If our character knew about that why would we respond to his distress call on europa.
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Edited by Hesh: 10/22/2020 1:42:15 PMPretty sure they're gonna know about Variks's dirty deed either way if the Beyond Shite website's story section is anything to by. [quote]After helping Uldren Sov escape the Prison of Elders, Variks has only recently emerged from hiding. An uneasy ally in the fight against Eramis, he is a shrewd opportunist who wants to do good, even if his choices are always suspect.[/quote] So I guess the real question is how the Guardian and everyone else come to find out about what he did in the first place and how does Variks make himself out to be an ally in spite of what he did, even though by the standards of anyone sane and logical, it's basically unforgivable? But then again, these are Destiny characters. Not exactly the composed and sensible bunch. Is it gonna be executed properly? Will it be well presented? Probably not! Maybe Variks will be absolved in but a single voice line! I mean, the worst possible thing they could do is to treat the fact that he caused the riot that helped Uldren escape like some huge twist reveal about halfway through. Don't get me wrong. Bungo is a bunch of incompetent clowns, but they can't be stupid enough to write it like that, can they?
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Or maybe they wait to reveal uldren as the hunter vanguard and then he tells us and it isn't seen as bad because we got a new vanguard
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That's the writing equivalent to pouring lemonade on a wound and then patching it up with industrial tape! I can almost see them doing that!
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That’s just such a weird disconnect.. we know all about these things as players - Uldren being resurrected, Variks causing the prison break, but our character and the surrounding cast don’t. It’s such a broken up way to tell a story.
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Of course! Only the most terrible and nonsensical approach will suffice!
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I agree with that but I also enjoy reading about the lore and certain things in this universe while I am not playing the game. Also there is so much going on around us most of the things we read in these books would be difficult to find out about in game. Like how praeydeth has escaped from the vog in a different timeline, but he escaped into the black garden so there is a slight chance we meet him.
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Little things like some VoG lore I’m fine with. But a major plot point for the main story being already known by the players but somehow not by the characters makes absolutely no sense (to me). Figuring out where Eva Levante has been, that’s lore that’s fine being in lore cards. A lot of the Dreaming City, Uldren, Mara Sov, Petra Venj information being in the lore cards, sucks (to me). Writing 101 - show, don’t tell. Uldren’s corruption and capture isn’t mentioned anywhere in the actual story. We don’t even know WHY he’s a villain if we don’t read those lore cards. It’s ridiculous. Without going into the lore pages of the game, is it explained anywhere how the Scorned Barons became a thing? Or what tainted ether is? Or why Riven is Taken? Somehow the exposition comes AFTER the story, and it’s all optional! And because it’s optional, these plot points make no sense! But hey, that’s just my opinion or whatever.
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Doesn't matter. It's still objectively terrible storytelling. The sole reason there's so much going on around us at seemingly random intervals is simply because Bungo has no idea what they're doing. Why all of these happenstances in the lore would be so difficult to find out about in-game is entirely on them. If the game had any semblance of quality in its execution of storytelling, you would already be finding out about all those things you mentioned in the game itself with appropriate pacing and worldbuilding. But we don't exactly live in that timeline!
