You'll never get there. Vanilla D2 was the closest this game will ever get to be competitive as a contest of shooting skill: Nerfed abilities. No swords (So three-peeking required using an emote and left the user very vulnerable). Fixed-rolled waapons. Anything that was OHK was power weapon requiring heavy ammo. Dual primary. Cosmetic armor. ...and the community hated it. Because it left the game feelign like a third-rate Halo clone. You could make the game MORE "competitive" by doing what you suggest. But you'd never get there....and the closer you got....the less and less what you'd be left with would feel like Destiny.

[quote]You'll never get there. Vanilla D2 was the closest this game will ever get to be competitive as a contest of shooting skill: Nerfed abilities. No swords (So three-peeking required using an emote and left the user very vulnerable). Fixed-rolled waapons. Anything that was OHK was power weapon requiring heavy ammo. Dual primary. Cosmetic armor.[/quote] The key difference here is that it keeps the same foundation as now, but with changes to bullet magnetism. God knows I hated Year 1, so no way in Hell I want the 1+ second Optimal TTK. [quote]...and the community hated it. Because it left the game feelign like a third-rate Halo clone. You could make the game MORE "competitive" by doing what you suggest. But you'd never get there....and the closer you got....the less and less what you'd be left with would feel like Destiny.[/quote] I also disagree here, because several games get the casual to competitive transition really good. Smash Bros since Smash 4 has officially had the same sandbox across both, with the only difference between 3+ people and duels being slight multipliers applied to the raw damage of abilities being very slightly changed. Rivals of Aether also has this separation without changing the sandbox beyond disabling stage hazards. Pokemon, too, has this separation, even if I think it's inadequate on the side of Dynamax. Destiny would need more regulation for a competitive setting, but small overhauls to the bullet magnetism system and a few weapon mechanics (range and spread/bullet magnetism being tied into each other) I think would vastly improve both the casual and the competitive side of the game.

Yes, but can't divorce the game from the CULTURE that it is a part of. Titanfall is successful because it has a player base that understands that its a game of movement and positioning...and its not a test of "gun skill", and you dont' really get into gun fights". MOBAs are successful becasue they have player bases that understand that they are a combination of a test of skill, and a test of build-strength. The problem here IS NOT your ideas. They are sound ideas to make the game MORE balanced and MORE competitive. The problem is the CULTURE that you're dealing with. Which is one either won't let Destiny out from under Halo's shadow....or only will do so when it benefits their own play style. So at the end of the day, you'll never be able to create a game that those individuals find satisfactory, without breaking the game in the process. Because you'd have to have a game that is even MORE stripped down (from a pve perspective) than vanilla D2 was.

[quote]Yes, but can't divorce the game from the CULTURE that it is a part of.[/quote] Ehhhhhhh... I can't see it, since the most overhauling change I'm suggesting is changing bullet magnetism mechanics to make more sense. I don't think it would: A. Hit PvE at all beyond MAYBE needing slightly bigger hitboxes on CERTAIN mechanics. B. If I know you well enough, it'd also not hit the "take your PvE rewards into PvP" dynamic that Destiny has, since I'm not really suggesting perk pool changes here. [quote]Titanfall is successful because it has a player base that understands that its a game of movement and positioning...and its not a test of "gun skill", and you dont' really get into gun fights.[/quote] Ehhhhhhh, I somewhat disagree there, since Titanfall's damage model is actually quite low considering it's former Infinity Ward (2 hit kills at 600-700 RPM devs). IIRC, the CAR, the most meta option is like a 5 hit kill at around 800 RPM. But that's a tangent. Destiny's playstyle is always one of using the light RPG mechanics to diversify the experience, via the class differences and weapon perks that other devs wouldn't even consider, with some exception to Infinite Warfare's more... "Out there" weapon variants comparing somewhat well to some of D2's perks. [quote]MOBAs are successful becasue they have player bases that understand that they are a combination of a test of skill, and a test of build-strength.[/quote] Coincidentally, that's why Heros of the Storm doesn't have much of a competitive scene. [quote]The problem here IS NOT your ideas. They are sound ideas to make the game MORE balanced and MORE competitive. The problem is the CULTURE that you're dealing with. Which is one either won't let Destiny out from under Halo's shadow....or only will do so when it benefits their own play style.[/quote] And that's where I'm lost with your position here, since again, none of my changes would impact casual play in a negative way at all, sans bullet magnetism [i]maybe[/i], since any ordinary player expects misses to actually... Not count... And I'd say Destiny being in Halo's shadow would always be a thing considering the TTK for it is closest to Halo, not to mention the loadout design to an extent (shotguns and snipers not being primaries, pistols and revolvers not being secondaries). Where you diversify is in the RPG mechanics, which isn't what I'm suggesting change for, in fact, I want Bungie to go a bit harder into it, without making the sandbox a complete shitshow like with Warframe (also the reason Warframe PvP doesn't exist due to no players). [quote]So at the end of the day, you'll never be able to create a game that those individuals find satisfactory, without breaking the game in the process. Because you'd have to have a game that is even MORE stripped down (from a pve perspective) than vanilla D2 was.[/quote] And I still don't understand why you take that perspective, especially considering I'm actually suggesting a competitive only blacklist for PvE stuff that'd completely break a competitive experience, so we don't have to strip down the PvE side.

Your losing me because you’re tuning the game to what seems like a personal definition of “competitive” that will not satisfy that hardcores.