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9/23/2020 8:26:59 PM
31
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Says the guy who caused the dreaming city curse lmao And you can't say it's different because you and Variks both had the exact train of thought
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Edited by olly5656: 9/24/2020 4:14:08 AMWell actually let me correct you on some things. The dreaming city was pretty screwed with or without “us” killing Riven simply put the cap on Savathun’s plan to have her murder battery. The actual city would have still been completely in chaos due to the Taken, Scorn and Hive raiding the city. And as far as intentions go not even in the same ballpark. We tried to kill Riven because we thought it would save the awoken and their homeland and were tricked. Meanwhile Variks decided that he had enough of being a good ol boy to the awoken and betrayed them, released the prisoners, then left without telling a soul which as we know ended up leading to us having to clean up the mess and then Cayde dying. And then he went on a power hungry quest to build up his power and a band of ragtag fallen and failed miserably. From the trailer it looks like he failed so hard he needs our help....again. Oh and not to mention he was in league with the big baddie of the Beyond Light expansion while ALSO being friends with the Fallen we were fighting during Zero Hour. Variks himself wanted to be the new Kell of the new house and failed miserably because of his arrogance. So no not the same thing at all bud lol.
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He did NOT fail. He is Kell of Kells and you will eat your words
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Traitor of all traitors
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That's a horribly biased take on the motivations of Variks' actions His species was and is on the brink of extinction, with every year they fall to deeper and deeper depravities to the point where now some would rather use the very thing that caused their whirlwind rather then dare join humanity and the awoken such as he What Variks did was wrong, I have no disagreement with that. Letting loose the most dangerous warriors ever captured ended up killing hundreds if not thousands of lives But Variks did what we would do all the same, his people matter more then anything just like humanity matters more to us then anything. Did he think Cayde would die in the process? Absolutely not, but did it happen? Yes But would Cayde blame Variks? I don't think so
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Edited by olly5656: 9/24/2020 2:20:27 PM“Did what we all would do” eh very debatable there’s multiple characters in the universe less arrogant than Variks including Mithrax, a fallen himself, who would try to find a different way that doesn’t involve betraying former allies. Variks came to the conclusion that he himself had to be the one to save his people. This is a classic case of the hero complex trope that is as old as time. His people need to be saved but only “he” is able to. Good intentions with extremely flawed execution. I’m only as biased as Variks is arrogant. And unfortunately Cayde isn’t even around to forgive or not forgive because of a certain someone so that’s kind of irrelevant. Not to mention Variks is a smart individual. I don’t like him but I won’t deny his intelligence, he knew that the Awoken would not have the resources to deal with a full scale prison break and would require assistance. And who else are they going to get assistance from in the solar system besides the Guardians? Variks knew from the beginning his action would endanger Awoken and Guardian lives so the “he didn’t know” card doesn’t play either. Something make me think if it was Fallen Kell/Baddie #342 or something akin you wouldn’t see so much mercy and sympathy for a literal traitor and killer of innocents but because it’s Variks well let’s make excuses.
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Hero complex? Variks never wanted to be a Kell. Go brush up on your lore. Variks is one of the least arrogant characters in the game
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He wanted to be the leader that saved his people call it what you want he was trying to grasp power to attain a higher position than he currently was don’t tell me brush up on lore kid
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Look Mithrax and Variks represent two sides of the same coin Variks was there when the Hive and the darkness came to his world Mithrax was born and raised in a time of piracy and cutthroats Variks wants his people to be great again Mithrax only wishes to ally with humanity, throwing away all the culture and history of his people just to survive in peace Both are have their points, they just go about it differently
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Edited by olly5656: 9/24/2020 6:19:12 PMExcept Mithrax isn’t responsible for a prison break resulting in countless deaths nor did he initiate the events that led to the death of one of the Vanguards of Earth.... Intentions are cute but actions have...ya know....consequences. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, a lesson Variks and his apologists must have skipped. The Barons and Uldren were punished for their actions. I see no reason why Variks shouldn’t be as well.
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Actions? Let’s remember who saved the awoken
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Last I checked the Awoken are still battling every day they don’t look saved by anyone
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Alright clearly you’re choosing ignorance. Have a nice day
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Nope I’m participating in a discussion/argument just like I did with the person in the thread before you except they were civil and willing to discuss their view. You’re just throwing out wild “NU UHs” and without explaining any of your perspective. So please do go so I can move on from this wasted dialogue between us.
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If you’ll have some much needed patience, I’m about to make a post about this. I will provide my information there. So sorry that I’m so sick of the argument that all I have nowadays is “Nu uhs” Eventually one gets tired of defending someone they love, no?
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Totally understood no ill will or grudge here genuinely looking forward to your post. It’s an interesting topic because the whole Variks situation is extremely divisive in the community.
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Who do we blame more to Cayde's death? Variks and Uldren? Or savathune and Riven? There's a correct answer here
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I don’t think that’s the right question. I would just say “Who contributed to Cayde’s death?” period. And the 4 names you listed are all involved and deserve punishment. Now I’m not saying we need to IMMEDIATELY ice Variks as soon as we see him like Uldren, but he deserves to face judgement, no pun intended, for what he did.
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You're a Guardian not an executioner, is the life of a gambling gunslinger really worth this unhealthy amount of vengeance? Is death the punishment for everyone involved? I don't think so, I forgive Uldren and I forgive Variks Hell a part of me even forgives Riven
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Edited by olly5656: 9/24/2020 8:54:50 PM[quote]You're a Guardian not an executioner[/quote] After Forsaken it’s hard to tell the difference. After all the entire first half of the DLC was us quite literally going on a rampage, completely against orders, murdering and executing dangerous individuals because they killed our friend. So maybe before Uldren but it’s too late now we’re rolling in the dirt and have been since. And that’s perfectly fine, I even somewhat agree with you. I don’t know about forgive, but I honestly felt like Uldren could have been spared as well. I’m just saying as far as the actual in game story goes, we killed Uldren and his gang for Cayde with basically no mercy. To be buddy buddy with Variks and let bygones be bygones would be jarring to say the least.
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I mean we were Variks Friend back in D1, we never got buddy buddy with Uldren
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Very true we were. I guess I just want our first meeting with Variks in Beyond Light to have some mention of all the mess that went down in Forsaken. Nothing more than that we don’t need to start shooting but definitely nothing less either. Just acknowledgement of Variks’ actions because we did go through a lot of shit because of him.
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Does the Guardian canonically know Variks started the prison break? Ghost asks if Variks was still in the prison during the strike so I'm guessing we don't actually know he did all that
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Edited by olly5656: 9/25/2020 12:28:19 AMI would have to guess the guardian knows in canon because in the Warden strike Drifter info drops everything that’s been going on with the prison while you were in the Dreaming City Or at least that’s how I remember one version of the dialogue going, we at the very least have to know Variks was warden of the PoE and Drifter says “ever since the Warden went missing” or something similar
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Missing can mean a lot if you don't know the full picture
