Well firstly, it's undeniable that your first reply was a mess. It's garbled, plagued with grammatical errors, and has problems with continuity that made certain points difficult to understand. You also try to jab at me by saying I am not the author of my post, but I'd say that as a nationally ranked debater and a published author, I can write quite well on my own (not that real life achievements hold any weight online, so we will leave it at that). However, the fact that you brought it up makes me wonder whether that was something you had done yourself at some point, but that is irrelevant. To yet again address the ad clear problem: I think you completely misunderstood what I said. What I had tried to convey was that primary so weapons are the most EFFICIENT for ad clear, because of the way ammo economy works. Furthermore, guns like the IKELOS smg can be paired with Warmind Cell mods like Global Reach, which can wipe out red bars in a 20 meter radius. This is far more efficient than any special weapon. I did bring up a certain type of special weapon - breach loaded launchers (especially Witherhaord and Mountaintop) - that can clear ads. HOWEVER, what I originally asserted was that these are the best for ad clear in the context of special weapons, NOT all weapons. I also don't know why you bring up IKELOS SR with ad clear. Never have I implied it is an ad clear gun, and in my first response I SPECIFICALLY said it's for BOSS DAMAGE purposes (and a good one at that) especially when paired with ANARCHY. Moving onto raid people being idiots: you basically raise the point that their setups are bad and they brute force everything through sheer dumb luck. However, I'd argue that players who can complete raids efficiently even with suboptimal loadouts have better skill than most others. I'd also argue that good skill far outweighs a good gear. For example, someone can be fixated on trying to find the best sounding violin in the world for 10 years instead of practicing and becoming better, and they will be far inferior than someone who practices actual skills on a violin for 10 years and will do well no matter which model and make they are playing on. Good players will be able to do good things with bad gear, but bad players can't do good things with good gear. That said, most raid players I've seen and know use very well calibrated and synergized loadouts, so not sure where you are finding your garbage raiders. I have also never said that elemental damage was important in raids. It's not a mode with the "match game" modifier, which if you don't know what it is, is a debuff where you can break shields significantly faster by using a weapon with the matching element. So far this modifier exists only on Zero Hour, The Whisper, Nightfalls (if you put it in the Five of Swords card and in high level Ordeals), and high level Nightmare Hunt activities. This does not include dungeons, raids, playlist strikes, lower level Nightfalls and Nightmare Hunts, or freeroam. I have also observed the shield "explosions" you have talked about in a 1050 Ordeal I have done recently, thank you very much, but they did no visible damage to nearby enemies. Not sure where you are seeing your incredible detonations that kill tons of enemies, but neither me nor my teammates have seen anything resembling what you describe. My characters are fine as is. I've tested the builds on my warlock, and it's highly efficient with both my pvp and pve loadouts. My titan is using double SMG + Peacekeepers for 6v6 pvp, so I don't know how that's "built backwards". Peacekeepers is exactly an exotic built for efficient smg use. The only reason the armor aren't all solar with everything being smg mods is because I don't grind on my titan very much, and only use it in Crucible for fun. Hence, I don't really care as much about it as I do my warlock. I literally don't give a rats ass about my hunter, and I don't even know what's on there. I use it only for weekly bounties and the occasional Pit to collect 6 free prisms and shards. 95% of my time is spent on warlock, so all the serious gear and builds I use are tied exclusively to that character. You also state that TTK doesn't matter in PvP? That's the most ignorant and plainly idiotic comment you've made so far. There's a reason why 150 hand cannons are popular and 110s, 140s, and 180s are not. There's a reason why 450, 360, and 720 auto rifles are far less used than 600s. Scouts as an entire gun class are unpopular because not only do they take far too long to kill when faced against a 600 auto or even 150 hand cannons (apart from 150 scout 3 crit, but it still suffers from the deficiency of having the longest body ttk out of any primary in the entire game), but they are clunky at closer ranges and out-competed by most pulses at their intended optimal distances. You can try to respond to this by saying "well many players can do good in PvP with trash guns", and I would agree. However, like I said above, good players will do good things with bad equipment. It doesn't work in the reverse. If you pit 2 players of equal skill - 1 with a 200 rpm scout and 1 with a 600 auto - the auto would win the large majority of the time. It is objectively this way. You also had to pull the attempted alpha male domination card with the "I will kill you if you get in my way", but unfortunately I also have 40k+ kills and it's not really anything special. I play trials as well, and I do good with my Trials team (not double carry attempts though, those were pain and I'm nowhere good enough to do them. Ended in catastrophic disasters 99% of the time). In fact, I would be happy to add YOU to the list of people I've killed with garbage like Skyburner's Oath or the Seventh Seraph Carbine, but I guess that wouldn't be too hard (especially in 6v6 where everything is chaos anyways). However, boastful comments are useless and accomplish no purpose, and so I will address them no further. Once again, you talk your style. I have to admit, your most recent reply is a massive improvement from the former. Are you sure you aren't the one who hired a friend to write it for you? This most recent text is not only well organized, it is also well articulated - far different from your first attempt. Debates are meant to be structured, although some humor is appreciated. However, writing gibberish and inserting poor roleplay does not add credit nor flair to your work. In fact, it detracts a significant amount from the reading experience. I also don't spread fake news. What I say are god rolls are tried and tested with actual numbers to back them up, and what I say are good weapons and perks have also been thoroughly reviewed. These tests are not conducted only by myself, but by experienced players, dedicated raiders, number geeks, PvP testers, and a wide variety of other people who are far better at the game - and have a much better understanding of game mechanics - than you and I. To accuse me of spreading fake news is to accuse all of them of being in some conspiracy to bring down guardians with garbage information, which sounds ridiculous and is an insane theory to imply. P. S. I do get the Trump reference at the end, and I will give you extra points for it being actually entertaining. I don't care at all about what Americans do in their country, but the occasional good joke is appreciated.