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8/13/2020 3:49:21 PM
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I think most people who are disappointed in this game don’t understand a few key things about Bungie.
Bungie’s business model is not to be the best video game in its genre. Bungie wants to make a profitable product. As long as they meet their numbers they will continue doing what they do. If you want to force Bungie to make a better product it has to be done through their wallet. Like the OP is doing.
That also plays into Bungie’s infatuation with streamers. It’s a quid pro quo. Bungie gets free press from it, streamers get paid. Win win. Bungie has learned this through the years unfortunately. So if you want Bungie to cater to the casual gamer, stop watching streamers.
Or just play the game as it is. I don’t play much so I’ve got about 30 quests to do. Every time I get on there’s something to do. My 13 year old just started playing as well. My dad also plays. I finally have a 3 man fire team!
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[quote]My 13 year old just started playing as well. My dad also plays. I finally have a 3 man fire team![/quote] Nice. All my Friends (I used to have about 100 Destiny Friends) have stopped playing. My last 2 friends that talked me into the last DLC are gone - they will not be back. I'm tired of having to find a new Clan every season and the Destiny simply is not a fun experience without friends to play with - it's a chore.
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Without being rude, you have to remember who is the paying customer expecting a working product and who is the seller, selling a product to be what it is not.
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Geez, thanks man. How dare a company be in business to make a profit. It’s a scandal, a damn scandal. Also good to hear that we have someone on the outside with some real insight into what Bungie’s business model is. You keep sharing those secrets.
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He didn't criticize a business wanting to make a profit, he criticized profit being their only goal, and making a quality product not remotely being a goal. Is your reading comprehension that bad or do you just make straw man arguments for sport?
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You want to talk straw man? You just said that Destiny’s quality was never Bungie’s goal...in fact it ranks at zero. That’s to say, in your opinion, that QUALITY has never been discussed at BUNGIE in regards to DESTINY. Dude. You even know you’re full of shit. Lol.
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Edited by MONKEYGOTRABIES: 8/15/2020 11:20:13 AMYou'd certainly be the expert on being full of shit. I didn't state an opinion at all, so, straw man away. HE said their goal was simply to make money, not deliver a quality product, and this 'Fools Destiny' absurdly mischaracterized his point to be that he condemns a business for actually having the audacity to try to make a profit. Either he can't contextualize what he read or he's disingenuously presenting a straw man to discredit him, and we both know it's the latter. Also, "remotely," isn't the same as, "not at all ('zero')," and current goals can differ from past or initial goals, so you turning it into, "never," is yet another. So you do this for sport as well.
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You’re annoying because you’re right. It was his opinion not yours and I responded as if you had said it. However. You’re still annoying.
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Lol. That might be the best sudo-apology in this dead horse topic. Loved it.
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Edited by MONKEYGOTRABIES: 8/15/2020 11:24:53 AMIllogical people tend to find logic and facts annoying. I'll just have to find a way to bear the heartbreaking sorrow that a random, anonymous, trigger-happy, internet loudmouth finds me annoying. Maybe with Christ's help, I'll manage through this dark, dark day. PS- At least you were man enough to admit fault; that's a somewhat rare phenomenon in here. Respect knuckles.
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This is the hottest of hot takes. Every company...every company wants to be profitable. Bungie IS trying to make the best video game ever. I’m sure Luke Smith isn’t giving speeches before long Dev cycles or holiday parties saying “Gang, everyone here knows we’re NOT aiming for #1. Never our goal. I’ve said it a million times: Just as long as the game is playable and we’re profitable that’s a win in my book. Let the other guys battle it out for who has the best game on the market. Am I right?” Please. Also Destiny was long in development before the notion of Twitch existed. Again, Following Luke’s speech about mediocrity I’m sure the marketing lead isn’t following that up with “team. We were at a loss for how to get the word out there about our little game. Luckily for us, this twitch thing has really taken off. We’re just going to thank the gods and ride this wave as long as they’ll let us” C’mon man. They’re one of the biggest developers on earth. They fired the biggest publisher on earth. Bungie if the exact company who’s aim is beyond the stars.
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You guys need a reality check if you cannot tell the difference making profit and making a good game.
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Please. Enlighten me.
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Check eververse dude. There’s a DATTO transmat effect. Tell me who really influences Luke?
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You do realize that's a gun manufacturer in game right?
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Was Destiny in development before YouTube influencers were a things? Was Destiny 2 in development before Twitch existed? How about Shadowkeep? Trials? You know there's a Trials plug-in for Twitch, right? You know Luke Smith has referenced Datto by name as inspiration for some of his spicy decisions, right? This may come as a shock, but development on a live service game can change course. Focus can shift. When Twitch becomes a valuable marketing tool, any dev able to take advantage of it is going to. Obviously Bungie is not alone in this, but it is a problem when the game is increasingly designed to cater to people whose lives revolve around it, which alienates the common player. The fact of the matter is Bungie stands to lose more by losing Datto or Gladd as a player than they do by losing you or me. When I got my refund, Bungie lost a few bucks. If Datto quits the game, Bungie loses a major source of exposure. So follow that logic through to its end: Whose opinion does Bungie profit from valuing more? It's an unfortunate truth, but the choices they've made concerning development and the direction the game has gone support the belief that Bungie is catering to streamers. Just because Twitch didn't exist when Bungie started development on Destiny 1 doesn't mean that it didn't become an important tool in their belt in the years since. I don't think Luke Smith was taking notes in one of Datto's lecture halls when he designed the Vault of Glass, but here we are today. And to be clear, I am NOT saying that everything in the game is the way Datto or any other influencer wants it. This isn't a Datto hit piece. He's entitled to his takes as much as anyone. Datto doesn't want to do 10 Gambit matches for his armor, for instance. I am saying that the game as a whole has been designed around the general notion of giving streamers 8 hours of content a day a.k.a. a second job for the rest of us.
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Who’s opinion do you think is more valuable regarding Destiny as a whole? The casual player like you and me who probably doesn’t have time to finish their solstice armor? Or is the guy who has literally made the game his profession? You’re argument is that Bungie listens to the people who play their game the most and that that is somehow an negative or bad thing. You’re implying that the only value twitch provides is free marketing. Is it? You think that’s all Bungie cares about? Have you ever considered that Luke Smith actually values what Datto has to say about Destiny? You think the guy running the ship might lend an ear to an individual that plays their product from 9 to 5, everyday? You think Luke smith wants to listen you, a guy who values their game so little you got a refund or the guy who has two thousand viewers per stream and has literally devoted his life to their game? Who would you listen to? You might think that your opinion matters more because you are the exact opposite of Datto and that should raise red flags, right? After all, if Destiny is such a quality game then why are players demanding refunds? Well of course you think your opinion matters more because you’re operating under the assumption that Bungie also knows their own product is lackluster and you just want them to finally admit it and finally make Destiny the game you’ve always wanted it to be. This is the argument of all the haters of Destiny and it always has been—That Destiny is some sort of elaborate conspiracy to frustrate gamers so Bungie can line their pockets. You hear how dumb that sounds? Have you ever considered that Bungie is trying to make the best possible game they can but are human like the rest of us and fail sometimes like the rest of us? Here’s the truth: Bungie has no idea that they are making a bad video game (and truthfully they’re not) They don’t know what the hell you’re problem is. They are honestly just doing the best they can. These are folks like you and me who have dreams. Their dreams were to be a concept artists for a gaming dev or a game designer or a creative lead on a major publication—these are dreamers living their dream to make video games. They’re not a bunch of assholes who plotted from their youth to frustrate gamers with a product designed to get under your skin. These are people doing one of the least valued things in society, making a video game. And they would rather listen to Datto than you because he has better ideas because destiny is his life and you probably never think about destiny once you turn off your console. So they listen to Datto so they can keep improving their game and maintaining the ultimate goal—living their dream. This is not a mystery. This is literally how everything works in the world. You choose the best source that will give you the best advantage toward your goals. Why is this a problem for you?
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I gotta say you have alot of good points in your post. But read it back to yourself and tell me with all honesty you know what its like to be in over your head in business. Bungie is a dev company, not a publisher. Publishers are the hundreds, if not thousands, of techs that make the developed game stay running. With Destiny being an "in house" game now all of their resources go into keeping it from being a crash hazard and making it work across all platforms. No room for dev with that on their plate. I have crashed a multi million dollar company by not swallowing some pride and taking on an activision type partner. I was scared to loose control of MY dream but without help the massive hump to get over alone was too daunting. In the end I was burried alive by the company that I now believe tryed to help. Put the game aside and just look at the business model and see if you can still defend them in the same way. Its easy in the forum because a well read collage student might be the only oposition but real world business is hard and Bungie may not be making the right decissions. Just food for thought since you appear to have way more going on upstairs than most forum posters.
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You do realize that 65% of the staff at Bungie have been working on a IP for the chinese market right? They only have the maintenance mode re-skinner, map tweakers, content refurbishers on staff at the moment.
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Why is it so hard for you to comprehend that Bungie stands to gain more by keeping Datto happy because he will intern broadcast to the gullible masses who will eat up their products without questioning it before realizing they've made a grave mistake? I literally said in my post that they stand to gain more by listening to Datto. But I think it is a mistake to listen to streamers on the grounds that they put in the most hours. As a single person, maybe they do, but as a collective, casual players put in infinitely more hours. My point isn't that they shouldn't listen to Datto. It's that they should be more nuanced in the players they listen to. Datto is probably the best person to listen to when it comes to raids, but your friendly neighborhood casual might be turned away by Datto's thoughts on day to day play because Datto and the casual have very different things they want out of the game. In that case, Bungie might want to listen to the casuals. It would be bad for Bungie to lose Datto because he represents a major arm of their marketing at this point. But it would be worse for Bungie to lose everyone else because they only cater to an elite few. That is my point. It's not so much about Datto as it is about who Bungie values. Or rather, what Bungie values. Bungie doesn't care whether you play one hour or fifty hours. They care how many dollars you pay. The more hours you play, the higher chance you'll pay via Eververse. Casual players make up the majority of Bungie's oil field, so there is good reason to keep them from refunding the game.
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Edited by RopeAdope: 8/14/2020 12:20:53 AMIt’s not worth it. This is one of those “self-evident” kind of things where rationality based on an outside perspective does no good. It’s like they have to want to kick the addiction and that won’t happen til they don’t get their fix. That’s why the game is a constant revolving door of players, each buying a product more “stepped on” than the last. Destiny 2 is the Pablo Escobar of cell phones. Edit: Analogy Trademarked and for sale in eververse for 1500 silver. Good for 4hrs. If you still play the game after 4hrs, please see a Dr.
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That’s a nonsensical analogy my dude.
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Na. Makes perfect sense to me. Unless you didn’t hear about that whole fiasco then ya, wouldn’t make sense
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Edited by Island8: 8/13/2020 6:08:53 PMTry comparing it to Cyberpunk or Star Citizen, lmao "best game." His speech would be more like "Lets make some bank and some content and keep this ship sailing."
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I just tried comparing it to cyberpunk and then realized I’ve never played it. And neither have you.
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I've played star citizen and witcher tho? I can also read? Literally read what the games offer, lmao.
