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Edited by TheCyo:
7/8/2020 11:03:06 AM
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Some facts for our PvP Overlords they do not like to hear:
a) Only margin groups had connection issues in SBMM. Average players are the biggest pool of players, so they never had lag/queue time issues because of SBMM
b) High end players are now dipping into this big pool of average players with CBMM and now have the same connection quality/queue times average players always had
c) High end players clearly now have a better Crucible experience than before
d) Average players have it worse, as their connection/queue times did not get better, but they have suddenly statistical outliers in their Lobbies that make more frags than the rest of their team combined
e) As high end players are a minority (Bell Curves anyone?) and they are the only ones benefiting from CBMM, I wonder, where are all the new players in Crucible coming from? Or why should average players, who did not benefit in anyway from the new CBMM, now flock in greater numbers into Crucible? Maybe first IB in season and actually 2 new weapons after a very long time?
These are all just simple facts.
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Idk why Bungie came up with this change, I mean ok you need to care about "high elo" players also, but for which costs?
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Edited by Zurreal: 7/10/2020 2:58:45 PMI'm an average PvP player - I definately have a better experience now with CBMM than I had before. And regarding what you say about connection, no - I don't think that's true. Again at least not in my case, I live in a country with great infrastructure for internet, I'm also on a very stable fibre connection. In SBMM I got laggy games all the time, delayed kills, kills behind corners, dead before I even see my opponent etc. Sure, this still happens but very rarely, but it's way better now. A game that already has the disadvantage of using peer to peer networking NEEDS to have connection based match making.
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Same opinion. I'm pretty average. However I stopped playing crucible a while ago because I got tired of sweating every match to win. CBMM makes it feel like a real casual playlist. Some games I win, some games I lose, and I dont bother sweating in either.
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I’ll never understand why people believe the best players should be banished to pvp hell just because they are better than other players.
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They never were. Pre COVID-19, when destiny was at a low in terms of player base, the only people playing pvp at 1 in the afternoon on a Thursday are either streamers, or in different parts of the world. Population is everything.
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Edited by Q'iq'el: 7/10/2020 12:19:24 AMLong term vision vs. short term fun? As the game goes old, the players who dedicate themselves to PvP get insanely good. The only way to introduce new players is to give them a chance to learn, and that means brackets. If you introduce brackets (sbmm), the best players end up in a very small lobby of top-of-the-tops. The sensible solution would be to merge that top-of-the-tops lobby with top 30% of player base, perhaps... but going full cbmm will always push the new players and average players out and soon you have a really empty lobby. Or even worse - the trials effect - cheaters abundant and account recoverers selling PvP ranks and weapons. But what is really happening is Bungie manipulating the player base. IIRC the same thing happened before the last expansion. They turn CBMM on at the end of the game year to keep top end players happy & involved. They get more PvP streams, more YouTube presence...and as soon as the new expansion hits, they’ll turn SBMM back on, until the last season of the next year.
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I also think that Trials effect gonna hit QP faster than the "pros" think, its just not fun to play vs "god" players as a avergage player. Its not, fullstop, there is no learning when you get permanently three tapped.
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New players learn the mechanics of the game through PVE. They don’t need their hand held in a PvP environment to get better at aiming
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[quote]New players learn the mechanics of the game through PVE. They don’t need their hand held in a PvP environment to get better at aiming[/quote] This is simply not true. You need to learn the maps first. The feel of the weapons is different than in PvE, the perks used are different, the way you use the weapons and the meta is also different most of the time. PvE experience is pretty much useless in Destiny PvP and the learning curve in PvP is pretty step without getting stomped and not even understanding why.
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Actually, new players would need their hand held in a pvp environment. They are... you know.... new.
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So much truth.
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Average players don't buy all the dlc and season passes Aaverage players don't promote the game to gain new players Average player doesn't spend much time in crucible In life their will always be someone better than you in Anything
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I'd consider myself and average PvP player, I've bought every DLC since D1 I've played quite a lot of PvP and usually enjoy it... But this IB was atrocious to the point were I had very little motivation to finish the bounties. Did the quest for the weapons and then jumped into survival where matchmaking seemed more balanced... I constantly got stomped in IB and got the old 'we're breaking up this teams' nearly every game. Sometimes it felt like I was being one shot by pulses/scouts. Basically what you've said is not true, except from the fact that I don't promote the game on a large platform
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[quote]Average players don't buy all the dlc and season passes Aaverage players don't promote the game to gain new players Average player doesn't spend much time in crucible In life their will always be someone better than you in Anything[/quote] 00psie!
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No one deserves to have to deal with the things that SBMM was doing to the people you call "margin groups," period. Tbh, if someone thinks that they deserve to have better quality in terms of shot registration, player movement, and matches where the game isn't constantly dropping and adding players on purpose to keep the score close then I'd rather they didn't flock into Crucible. Its nothing but unfair to think that you have the right to make anyone else's game to be effectively broken outside of anything having to do with skill and people like that are the problem. I say this with the utmost respect, but they are the problem.
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Maybe they shouldn’t have maté this game on a 10 year old network setup.
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I think everyone can agree that the infrastructure is the basis of all the problems that we argue about. But given the circumstances that can't be changed CBMM is a better overall approach for the long term health of PvP imo. You can't give some people a game that works right and some people a game that works like garbage just because one group is worse at the game than the other.
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That’s a fair opinion.
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Thanks. And for what its worth, I'm not even that good at the game. When you're in the middle with SBMM you just end up getting squeezed from both ends in terms of quality because whatever this game was doing it was still privileging the precious, precious streamers and top tier stat mongers.
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I’m not great either. My k/d is at least positive, but with my rural connection and atrocious upload speed, my games always feel off kilter. One of the joys of farm living. It’s that double edged sword for me. I can have stable games or I can play well, but it seems I can’t have both lol. It would be nice to not get shot behind walls so often, but with my network speeds it unfortunately can’t be helped. Still enjoy playing though!
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Yeah. I was talking to a clan member that lives in a rural area a while back and it was definitely a different perspective he gave as to the way the game works. He actually told me that dedicated servers would be a detriment because that's how bad the internet is where he lives. Which, I don't know if that's true, but it was an interesting take on the situation.
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There’s truth in this because my kd jumped from 1.7 to 2.07
