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Edited by kellygreen45:
5/26/2020 6:21:44 PM
27
[i]Ikora Rey.[/i]
Our Guardian is the most powerful Guardian in the history of the Vanguard....and Ikora is the person WE turn to when we need a hand with something. We're the person everyone ELSE turns to when they need help.
Everyone else you've mentioned are "badasses".
Ikora Rey is just [i]scary [/i]. So scary that she's one of the few who have struggled to CONTAIN her power.
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Yeah. She glasses an entire battle in our "prophesized" battle with her.
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I always thought Osiris was stated to be the most powerful guardian
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He was for his time. But at the end of Curse of Osiris, he tells Ikora that she has surpassed him. While she tells us going into the final fight of the Red War that she has nothing left to teach us. Also if you look at Guardians other than ourselves, they tend to specialize in a single subclass. The only Guardians you see (other than us) who use more than one are Zavala and Ikora. Zavala uses Arc on offense and void on defense. While Ikora follows her emotions. When she is at her most angry or aggressive she goes to Voidwalker. In her most balanced she goes to Stormtrance. For Warlocks Dawnblade seems to require the greatest control over one’s emotions. Which is why Osiris uses it exclusively, while Ikora uses it the least, despite having been Osiris’ protégée.
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Interesting. I will point out that Saint and Shaxx have both been know to use multiple subclasses, though Saint does tend to favor Sentinel. Real question is who would win in a fight between Ikora and Saint?
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Ikora. Remember he nearly died in a 1v1 in a brawl with a Kell.
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That was right after Twilight Gap. His Light was probably already drained. Besides, i think destroying a Vex Mind WITHOUT his Light trumps that.
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Ikora took back the City without hers.
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With the help of several other guardians and non-guardians and our guardian (who had Light). Saint's feat is [i]way[/i] more impressive.
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No it wasn’t. Saint was trapped and had no choice. Ikora stepped into that battle knowing she might die, to save others. And she didn’t do it when her powers were weak. She did it after they had been stripped from her, and had to face the fear of death for the first time in centuries. That is an act of inner toughness and resolve that St. 14s feats can’t touch. He is a badass. She is arguably second only to our own Guardian in power, skill, courage. She is already Vanguard Commander in every way but name. She is propping up Zavala as his resolve slowly fails him, and is compensating for his lack of vision, predictability, and timidity as a leader.
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I agree that Ikora demonstrated a massive amount of inner toughness. She was on the level of Titans, and being a Warlock herself, that's damn impressive. But we're not talking about that. We're talking about who would win in a fight. I admit Ikora might have more powerful Light, but Saint is undoubtedly the more skilled combatant. Saint's Light was stripped away also, and he not only killed a Vex Mind that was designed to kill him, but he killed a literal mountain of Vex before he was ultimately overwhelmed and killed. His dead body was sitting on said mountain. The Vex built him a shrine. No one, not even our guardian, has earned the respect of the Vex.
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Edited by kellygreen45: 5/27/2020 2:05:13 PM[quote]But we're not talking about that. We're talking about who would win in a fight. I admit Ikora might have more powerful Light, but Saint is undoubtedly the more skilled combatant.[/quote] Then with all due respect, you don't understand how combat between Light/Darkness bearers take place. My Name is Byf did a great video several years ago on "Paracausality" (The Destiny Universe term for the godlike magic that Guardians and certain minions of The Darkness wield), and how it applies in the Destiny world. When two Lightbearers fight. It is not a struggle of speed or skill but of RAW power. Our weapons and armor function like WANDS in the Harry Potter universe. A FOCUS for the power bound up in our Light. So when two light bearers fight. Or a Guardian takes on a Hive, both combatants draw upon their power reseves in the Light or Dark.....focus it into an attack through their weapons or abilities....or into a defense through their armor, abilities or shields.... ....and whoever is the most powerful---and has the strongest will----, generally wins. Its why high level Hive can inflict permanent death on a low-level Lightbearer, by LITERALLY RIPPING the Light from their body and consuming it. The reason why you aren't going to win this debate is because most Guardians struggle to HARNESS their power. If you listen to lore that was given to us back in D1 during the mission where we obtained the Stormcaller class for the first time, and during The Red War Ikora was a warlock that struggled to CONTAIN her power. She has always had this ENORMOUS well of power in the Light to draw from, her challenge has been learning to manage her own mind and emotions, so that she wasn't a ticking bomb walking around. So a contest between her and St. 14 would be contest of Light versus Light....and Ikora would win that fight. The only Guardians who would likely win a direct confrontation with her is either Osiris (because he trained her) and our Guardian. Because our well of power to draw from is even greater than hers.
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I thank you for clarifying how all that works. I guess this is another one of the differences between classes. Warlocks are generally more powerful but Titans are the kings of the battlefield.
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Different roles. Like infantry and artillery. Unfortunately this difference was clearer in-game in D1...but its been watered down in D2 in the name of PVP balance. (Like so many other things....) The primary role of Titans is the defense of the City, so your sense of htem being optimized for attack and defense is correct. But the role of Warlocks is to work with....and understand....the nature of the Light itself. Of all three classes they draw upon the Light most directly and have the higher power ceiling. If you look at the lore, you'll see that its always Titans who are at the forefront of defending the City from harm: Shaxx, St. 14, Zavala, Sloane. Saladin Whereas its Warlocks that the City turned to and asked to step onto the battlefield to turn the tide. (Twilight Gap). But its also Warlocks who are pushing the boundaries of what humans know about the Light and the Darkness: Osiris, Toland The Shattered, Eris Morn...who is more like a Warlock now than she is a Hunter.
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I agree with pretty much everything you said, but i will say that Shaxx is the one who turned the tide at Twilight Gap. He lead the fireteam that held thousands at bay so Zavala and Saladin could rally the troops.
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Yes. But without Warlocks coming out to stand on the walls alongside Titans, Twilight Gap would have been a rout and the City would have been destroyed. Shaxx made a critical decision at a point where it was needed to ensure victory.
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And without the Titans those Warlocks would have been overwhelmed. They don't deserve any more or less credit than Titans.
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You’re missing the point. Titans by themselves successfully defended the City at The Battle of Six Fronts on their own. But the assault that the Fallen launched at Twilight Gap was on a scale such that Warlocks had to come out and stand on the Walls as well. If Warlocks has not done that, the Titan force would have been over run. Even though Warlocks DID do this, it was nearly not enough and that’s where Shaxx’ daring and leadership was the eventual margin of victory.
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Then i apologize for the misunderstanding. I have another question. If speed and skill doesn't matter in a fight between 2 Lightbearers, then how the hell did Cayde cheat his way into beating Shaxx? There's no way Cayde is more powerful than him and even if he was more powerful he wouldn't have needed to cheat.
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Remember that I said Paracausality is about Power and WILL?? One of the things that people both loved and hated about Cayde-6 was once he set his mind to doing something, NOTHING whatsoever got in his way on the road to making it happen. When Oryx attacked, he walked out of the briefing once he knew the full extent of the danger and decided what needed to be done. He knew Zavala would be his usual timid and overcautious self. That Ikora would waste her time trying to convince him to take a more proactive approach, but even she wouldn't be enough. That the situation called for a bold stroke that the enemy wouldn't see coming....and he broke just about every rule and ultimately sacrificed a jump ship that didn't even BELONG to him....in order to get us on board the Dreadnaught and get control of the situation.
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I know that Cayde is one of the best and he played a very important role (there's a good reason the Vanguard is so out of balance since he died), but Cayde being able to out willpower Shaxx doesn't make any sense at all. One of the reasons Ikora being able to beat Shaxx is so impressive is because he's damn near unstoppable and has the willpower of at the very least equal to Cayde.
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Edited by kellygreen45: 5/28/2020 11:31:17 AM[quote]but Cayde being able to out willpower Shaxx doesn't make any sense at all.[/quote] Because, once again you're thinking of the struggle in HUMAN terms. As a PHYSICAL contest instead of a MAGICAL one. That's is part of the reason why Osiris ended up getting exiled, and Shaxx panicked warning not to try to take the Moon from the Hive was ignored and led to the Great Disaster. The Vanguard and The City leadership were stuck in mindset of seeing their problems in human terms and on a human scale. Shaxx understood that Hive Swords wern't just "swords". Only on the battlefield did the Vanguard realize that they were magical weapons that could simply RIP the Light of Guardians, and inflict permanent death. If the wielder were powerful enough. Osiris understood that were weren't in just a war with the Fallen on human terms for the survival of the City...but that we were caught up in a War in Heaven between beings that wielded godlike power....and that we would lose unless we started thinking in those terms. How do you defeat an enemy that can time travel....and can keep going farther and farther back into the Past trying to undo the conditions that led to their defeat? YOU MIGHT NOT EVER BE ABLE TO. A War with the Vex may in fact be a war for all of Eternity. Osiris may be in the Infinite Forest...forever. Struggling to defeat the plans of the Vex....forever. ...and he stepped into what might be that eternal Hell...willingly.
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Nova Bomb 'Nuff said.
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I still can’t get that cutscene from The Red War out of my head where she Nova Bombed that Cabal Dropship. Then climbed on top of it like she was going to rip the occupants out of it on the way down.... Then during Curse of Osiris she basically just [i]rips[/i] open a portal into The Infinite Forest for us. No finesse. Just raw power.
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ZeroTheNinePreparing For War Against The Witness! - old
PREACH! Tell it again to the New Light Guardians in the back of the Tower who don't know Ikora's reputation and strength. Not even Lord Shaxx wants to tangle with Ikora Rey (Again). That says enough right there for the Titan who gave Lord Felwinter the business back in his Warlord days. #IkoraWins #DontScrewWithIkoraRey -
Rumor has it that Shaxx is always standing because of a Crucible injury she gave him that still makes it uncomfortable for him to **sit**.
