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Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
Edited by Grimmra: 11/19/2019 9:46:58 PM
42

Bungie has lost focus.

Over the last month or two, I've been discussing with my clan some points of community frustration, and I've compiled a list of things that I believe Bungie has failed to acknowledge as an issue within the community. Note that all this is subjective, and what I say may not be what you agree with. [i][b]I am okay with that.[/b][/i] You should be, too. My goal here is to start a discussion and maybe give Bungie some insight into what the players want and expect from Destiny, as well as some potential fixes to lead them in the right direction. I want to begin by saying that as of now, I have a combined 1,668 hours in both Destiny games. All of my free time is spent on my Destiny clan, playing the game, or talking about the game. I have the largest Destiny collection of all of my friends, from Funko pops, to collector's editions, to plushies, to lunchboxes, you name it I have it. [i][b]This is not to say my opinion means more than yours.[/b][/i] This is simply meant to say that I am extremely invested in this company and this game, and I want nothing more than to see it shine and be the best it can be. I love this game with the bottom of my heart, and I hope that is reflected in my post. Now, let's get into it. [b][u]Crucible[/u][/b] One of the things that Shadowkeep promised us is a renewed focus on PvP. I want to come out and say it, the Survival playlist, and competitive as a whole, is by far the best it has been in a long time. Making plays is all the more crucial, hitting Fabled and even Legend is not a difficult dream to achieve for most players. However, other game modes have not received the same treatment. I am an above average player, sitting pretty near the top in my own clan. When I want to play a relaxed game mode, where I can use Rat King or Cerberus+1 and just enjoy the game, there isn't a single option in the Crucible that lets me play against others that just want to have fun, thanks to skill based matchmaking. Every playlist is plagued with people using the meta, sweating their faces off using Not Forgotten and Dust Rock, OEM and bottom tree Striker. It is [i] excruciating.[/i] This problem only gets worse the higher a persons skill level. I am not a Crucible God, I am only pretty good, so imagine what it's like for the further ~20% of players above my skill level. It simply [b]isn't fun.[/b] Many of my clanmates and friends have stopped going into Crucible because of SBMM. I think the best way to solve this issue would be to create a playlist in which you cannot use the top 10 meta weapons in each weapon slot. This data can easily be found on Charlemagne bot, as well as other sources. It can be a weekly rotating choice of weapons, to keep from becoming stagnant, and it would help diversify loadouts across all Crucible modes. As a small addendum here, ranking up in the Crucible is effectively meaningless. Stat rolls are bad even on reaching Legend rank, there are no ways to earn Ascendant shards through the Crucible, and playing so much for just 7 enhancement cores is not worth it in today's economy. [b][u]Balancing[/u][/b] When Forsaken launched, it seemed like for the first time in Destiny 2 history, Warlocks were the meta inside of PvP. Nova Warp was a monster inside of the Crucible, and you'd be hard pressed to find a match without one. But then, the nerf happened. And it was a BIG one. Every single aspect of the super got pounded into oblivion. It became a laughing stock. It cannot one-shot supers with a full charge. Since then, it has gotten a buff, but it is still laughably bad. Furthermore, damage resistance and super gains were also nerfed as recently as Shadowkeep, making this super even WORSE, allowing other supers to kill it with ease. Meanwhile, bottom tree Striker has had free roam of the Crucible for far too long, and Arc Striders are one of the best supers in the meta currently. Things don't add up. There is no balance. And this is just regarding supers. Weapon balancing has taken a hit since Forsaken, with high-impact Fusions making a bad name for the rest of the bunch, 360 auto rifles being a steaming pile of hot garbage, SMGs outside of Recluse being a shadow of their former selves, and sidearms being so horrible that not even an Exotic armor piece centered on them can save the way they perform. Scouts are in a better place, admittedly, but only at extremely long ranges, where Bows and Snipers are comfortable, edging Scouts out again. From a player perspective, there seems to be absolutely zero testing for PvP going on, and even less action being taken against, or in favor of, things that need it. This needs to change. [b]Give us the focus on PvP you promised us.[/b] [b][u]Exotics, Affinities, & Stats[/u][/b] We all know the argument about Affinities. We know that they're confusing, frustrating, and rely way too heavily on RNG. I won't delve too far into this, but it should be noted that Affinities were meant to improve buildcrafting, and in some cases have instead hindered it. Want Enhanced Ashes to Assets with Remote Connection? Well, too bad. It's not possible. Affinities, and the mods tied to them, need to be looked at and reworked. This has been a good starting point for a new feature, but this feature needs to evolve in order to succeed. Stats are another point of frustration among armor pieces, because of the extremely limited ways to get high-stat rolls. As it currently stands, the only way to get a nice 60 roll or higher on your armor is through raiding or Iron Banner. Not even Prime Engrams can drop high stat armor, which makes every single armor drop a worthless drop outside of those two sources. Both of these issues become HUGE hindrances when you factor in Exotic Armor. Ordeals have become a pretty nice Exotic farm, but getting the exact armor you want, plus the exact Affinity, PLUS the exact stat roll is still too much RNG to get what you're looking for in a timely manner. Even with Ordeals, you may not get that perfect armor piece [i]ever[/i] in all your time playing. High stat rolls need to be made available to all armor drops, though rare. These should be made more common with Prime Engrams, and further still on Exotic drops and Powerful/Pinnacle drops. Additionally, Crucible rank up rewards need to have a high chance for high stat-rolled armor. [u][b]Xur[/b][/u] In an effort to save time and post length, I will quickly say that Xur should sell Glass Needles to change the affinity on Exotics. He should also sell another consumable that allows the re-roll of one armor piece of any type to become high stat armor. This would allow useless armor, such as Escalation Protocol sets or Dreaming City sets to retain some value to players, and give them reason to keep some armor pieces with affinity rolls they like so that they can potentially add it to their loadout in a min/max build. These consumables should be expensive to prevent people from just re-rolling thirty times in an hour and getting what they want, therefore ruining the play experience. Oh, and re-roll his armor please, for the love of God. Xur is so useless right now to veteran players. [u][b]Strikes and Nightfall Loot[/b][/u] I'll put this plainly: the new strikes not having Nightfall specific drops is a bad change. It was said that development time for these things would take away from something like a seasonal item's development time, but Nightfalls need a reason to be played for something more than just "Ordeals in a different flavor." Bring the weapon drops to the Year 2 Random Roll standard, and make drops for the new Nightfalls. It has become a staple for the Destiny 2 endgame and needs to stay that way. Normal strikes are underperforming greatly. I have an idea that the community has been asking for in some form for a long, long time. Strike specific armor. Each strike in the game should have a low (5-10%) chance of dropping an armor piece related to the strike. A hunter cloak that drops from the Fanatic strike, or a Warlock helmet that drops from the Scarlet Keep. This would bring HUGE value to the Strikes playlist and would bring value to the base Destiny 2 experience. [u][b]Vendor Resets[/b][/u] The last time Sloane had a refresh was back in Warmind. For those not keeping score, that was nearly two years ago. How this has not been a focal point for Bungie is beyond me. The planets and their patrol spaces are a huge part of Destiny, and I personally enjoy going to Nessus just to look at the scenery. [b]But that isn't enough.[/b] Vendors, planetary vendors especially, need to be updated at least yearly with new or more bounties, new gear to chase, or hell even dialogue! (You just never quit, do you?) Shaxx has not sold a new weapon roll that was worth anything since Wish Bringer. Zavala hasn't had armor that I've cared about since YEAR ONE. Banshee is still selling the same weapons, with some of them being world-drops (which is just a low blow for 100 weapon parts). Devrim has been drinking tea and not much else. At the very least, Bungie, we need a DLC with a focus on these characters. They're interesting and have huge impacts on lore and early gameplay, but for the last two years they have been at an absolute standstill and they mean NOTHING. This needs to change. [u][b]Factions[/b][/u] Nobody asked for Faction Rallies. Nobody asked for them to become huge, time consuming grinds for gear that we got naturally back in Destiny 1. In fact, [b]nothing was wrong with factions in Destiny 1.[/b] Bring back the factions as they were in D1, with natural gains from just playing the game. Bring back the Exotic class items from pledging to them for so long. Bring back the life of the game that you took away almost [b][i]two years ago.[/i][/b] Bring back the weekly featured weapon roll, but make us spend faction tokens to get them. This was an integral part of the Destiny experience and lore and it has been reduced to decorations in the Tower. (Post limit)

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  • Edited by Nazo: 11/23/2019 8:34:12 AM
    I recall a Shaxx quote, "Too scattered! No focus!" [spoiler]He says this in D1 Doubles when the enemy team is losing through their ass.[/spoiler] I think this quote very much fits Bungie as a whole.

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  • Edited by Dworf: 11/20/2019 2:01:44 AM
    When you say go in and relax what your really saying is you want to have a game mode were you can go in and humiliate normal everyday hardworking people. Typical response from a lowlife sociopath. All I can say is fcuk you and fcuk your desires.

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    • Bungie had focus?

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    • Nah their focus is eververse and your wallet so they are on par.

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    • I spent two hours typing this out, so I'm going to self bump

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      • I'd like to thank everyone for supporting this post, but unfortunately I think it's on the way to being forgotten. With no response from dmg04, and upvotes trickling in ever slower, I don't think this post will achieve my original goal of bringing insight to Bungie. I appreciate those who came out to respond and give their constructive feedback!

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      • No they haven't. D2 was made to be a poor quality paid for dress sim, and they have achieved that.

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      • They lost the plot a long time ago. Don’t expect anything of these hacks. They are here for one reason and one reason only: Scam you out of every dime you own.

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      • People play destiny for fun? You have never been on LFG my dear!

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        • TL;DR Bungie never had focus. Halo 2 would have never seen store shelves if Microsoft hadn't saved their asses. They made it big with their help, wanted free, couldn't hold up, got Activision's help, made it big again, got out, and started to fail again. I love Destiny 2 but Bungie is categorically one of the worst developers in the market and always has been. There was a decent chunk of content in the season pass, especially for its price. But the only reason any developer could have a positive outlook at the idea of finishing out seasonal content by reskinning one enemy in one activity is lack of focus. They are so incredibly disconnected from their community, they have no idea what they want. And even if they did, they wouldn't really care. Bungie are hell-bent on delivering the smallest amount of effort-per-profit possible at all times and who I feel really bad for are the developers that have to read these posts. Because it's the big boys you see sociopathically lying to their community with every ViDoc they put out, insisting they want to "give players what they want" that are to blame.

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          • bump

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            • It seems pretty clear to me that the issue is this game just isn't thier priority anymore. We know Bungee are looking to have multiple IPs in the field in the next few years, which means they are being worked on now, whch is clearly taking away from the resource available to keep this game on track. It's a shame becuase one of things the community loves about this game is the potential it had, but it's just not being realised and doesn't look like it will be. Add to this that Bungee are starting to act pretty crappy towards players - spend less resource on game but still charge the same, double down on MTX and add more of it = getting less but paying more, and it's starting to show.

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              • Oh no, they do have focus. Selling on FOMO. Thanks, Luke Smith. I always had a feeling that you wanted people to still throw money at the screen. I'm surprised we don't hold him more to that now, it literally exposes him.

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                • Absolutely agree on Xur points. Exotic armor should at least be 55+. Having them be 47 or 49 basically makes them not worth using at all. Crucible though I don’t agree so much on. Skill based MM needs to be there because players who are not as experienced or good don’t want to be constantly put in matches against real good players to be farmed. They could add a mode without SBMM but it would likely be filled with high level players w/perfected load outs because they’d all be there trying to farm low levels and everyone else would avoid it for the most part. But I don’t think you can force that on new players. For the rest of us there’s a pretty good variation in skill level in both normal crucible and comp already. I may end up against people I can crush without breaking a sweat and then the next match I might find myself being skewered. SBMM if it really even works now is needed. Maybe Mayhem could have no SBMM or something.

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                  • You're wrong about SBMM. Skill based matchmaking is the absolute best thing to ever happen in Crucible. Crucible is supposed to sweaty. There shouldn't be an "easy mode" for PvP. If you're an average to above average player, 40+ defeats with a 2.0+ kda shouldn't be possible. Pubstomping shouldn't be or have ever been a thing. The cbmm classic mix playlist perfectly illustrates this. It is filled with 6 stacked fireteams, running meta loadouts, kd farming anyone dumb enough to venture in solo. This is what all playlists used to be. Every single match had 2 players per team, running around farming everyone else. That's not fun for anyone besides those top 4 players. SBMM fixes this issue. Now everyone is evenly matched. Yes, the better your stats are, the sweatier the games get, but isn't that how its supposed to be. I'm awful at Crucible. Cbmm, sbmm, doesn't matter, every match is a sweatfest for me. All of these PvP players talk about how easy PVE is and how its a joke. SBMM has made crucible more challenging. Isn't that what you want, a challenge?

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                    • I think this is a really good passage. Where’s that dmg04 guy?

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                      • Bungie is just trying too hard to make destiny 2 too many things. It's an action MMO with rpg elements with FPS and looter shooter elements. It doesn't need to be overly complicated. Destiny 1 was fairly simple and it worked. It had great lore, great loot and great gun play. Destiny 2 is just over inflated for no real reason

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                      • the whole history of d2 is d2 trying to catch up back to what d1 was, we had weapons 2.0 already and armor 2.0 to an extent everything theyre adding has been them trying despratly to recreate the actually experience that we had in d1.

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                        • Very well written and thought out post. [quote]It simply isn't fun. Many of my clanmates and friends have stopped going into Crucible because of SBMM. I think the best way to solve this issue would be to create a playlist in which you cannot use the top 10 meta weapons in each weapon slot. This data can easily be found on Charlemagne bot, as well as other sources. It can be a weekly rotating choice of weapons, to keep from becoming stagnant, and it would help diversify loadouts across all Crucible modes.[/quote] As far as Crucible is concerned, it does very much seem to be pointed in the right direction. Lets just hope they head that way. The increased SBMM in CM has led to quite a few miserable play sessions for me but there are enough people saying they love it now that I have no idea what the answer is. I just wish they would create a totally CBMM playlist (Clash?) because its not a matter of wanting to beat up on lower skilled players. Some of us really like the feeling of knowing we are going to get good shot registration and not having to switch from a weapon that we were trying out to meta weapons simply because of the lag and/or the damage referee. I know everyone hates streamers but Aztecross recently made a real good video on Crucible that everyone should check out. It needs to be more rewarding. Especially for people that have other things that they could be doing. The Comp grind is almost perfect because it should be possible for more than 5% of people to make it to the top. They just need to up the feeling of engagement somehow. How that is I don't know, but since we've moved past pinnacle weapons for only the very good they need to figure out some kind of way to let people show their skill and amount of effort they put into being good at the game. It needs to start making more sense. It needs to come across like its a show of both the devs' skills and the skills of the people that play the game. They need to put skill ranking back for all to see imo.

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                          • Edited by ALBOBOSS: 11/21/2019 3:15:36 AM
                            Like you I'm invested in Destiny; have about 2000 hours in both games, majority being spent in the crucible. I'll agree that the crucible needs work, but not for the reasons you mention. I would make the following changes: Quickplay 6v6: pure CBMM and 1 playlist with random gametypes to not spread the player population apart for the best possible connection. This is where you hop in for a quick game, and you are immediately matched with others that facilitate the best possible connection in that time. Comp 3v3: SBMM with tiers that represent skill. Bungie's skill algorithm places you in your respective skill bracket, e.g. Bronze, silver, gold, platinum, diamond. You play in this skill bracket and compete for legend. Different skill brackets reward different emblems and ornaments at the end of the road to legend but every tier can get the weapon at fabled/legend. At anytime, players can chose to match with higher skill brackets and can start doing so from 0 glory. Glory in previous bracket can be saved in case they would want to return to that level. If they do well in the new bracket, they can continue playing and grinding the ornaments in that bracket. If they are a detriment to the team for many games, they can be demoted to play into their previous bracket. This system ensures SBMM and rewards improvements in skill while still giving the player base access to pinnacle weapons. Edit: Freelance option stays in comp.

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                            • They need that money, they really do, they need that money, to pay their bills. The electric bill, the internet bill, the Mercedes bill, the 4 bedroom apartment bill, the netflix bill, the CD Projekt Red games...

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                            • Crucible Classic Mix uses CBMM, and it is sweatier than all the other Crucible formats combined!

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                              • No, they focus players on a daily basis.

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                                • I hope you're not waiting for a response from Bungie because remember "Bungie has lost focus"

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                                  • Too busy having summits with streamers. Give them time.

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                                    • Bungie lost focus the day they did this.... They've never recovered since.

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