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11/16/2019 3:30:07 PM
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Recluse has 1.019 kills for eack 1.0% of usage (think of it as an efficiency rating. if 10 out of 100 people used it but they got 15% of all the kills it would have a 1.5 ratio and you would say that gun is doing well) in comp and 0.988 kills for each 1.0% of usage in quickplay. It's actually not that good by the numbers, but it's everywhere so perception.
Now the reason I brought this up is fusions. Erentil is 1.422 comp and 1.29 QP. Wizened Rebuke 1.28 comp and 1.122 QP. Jotunn is 1.514 in comp and 1.36 in QP. They are performing far better than the infamous Recluse looking at how many kills they get vs. how much they are used, so when the nerf hits and perception is Recluse finally stinks, a lot of people are going to fill that energy slot with a fusion rifle. Give it time, but they are going to be an even bigger problem than recluse ever was.
Just for comparison, DRB performs at a 1.007 in comp and a 1.009 in QP. Incredibly well balanced at the moment, pretty much equal kills for the number of people using it. Revoker is a little better with a 1.106 in comp and about balanced in QP at 0.975. Two other very good special ammo weapons don't hold up.
Anyways, I think over time there isn't even going to be an argument of high impact FR being too strong. The only reason people haven't melted down is perception. Recluse gets used a ton so it has to be OP (even though the numbers say it really isn't), over time people will favor fusions because they actually are.
If you feel that % kills vs. % usage isn't a good way to look at how well a gun performs, by all means feel free to disagree. I'd like to find a better way using data, I'm not a fan of public perception.
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I’m pretty much against nerfs in general but I am continually surprised at the range on Erentil for its power. But I hate using Fusions so idk if someone can use it effectively then fine with me I guess. If anything maybe a minor range nerf but not much.
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Edited by Eucadia: 11/17/2019 6:38:46 AMCorrect me if I'm wrong, but it seems you're trying to propose a model which correlates %kills with %usage of weapons to determine (based on the highest Ratios) which weapons require nerfs? If so, there's a flaw in your model... [u]QuickPlay Ratios:[/u] Jade Rabit = 1.77 Coldheart = 1.48 Hardlight = 1.36 Sweet Business = 1.59 Wavesplitter = 1.69 Cerberus = 1.50 Prometheus Lens = 1.55 Polaris Lance = 1.62 Surros Regime = 1.39 (Data taken from here: https://destinytracker.com/destiny-2/db/insights) Would all these weapons also require a nerf (according to your model) because their Ratio is higher than Erentil's 1.29? Keep in mind Quickplay involves more modes than Competitive does; therefore: Quickplay Population >> Competitive Population Since you chose "Usage" as a variable for your model, and Quickplay entails a bigger population than Competitive does, that means the Ratios in Quickplay contribute a lot more (in %) than the Ratios in competitive: In terms of "importance": Quickplay Ratios > Competitive Ratios So it can't be said (not saying you specifically are) that because Erentil has a high ratio in Competitive, it needs a nerf under this "Ratio model". Competitive is a small fraction of the entire PvP community, and therefore isn't representative on its own of which weapons need adjustments.
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How's that a flaw? I didn't suggest any of the others weren't overperfoming, I was just giving examples. Do you have a better way to look at the data that isn't subjective?
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[quote]How's that a flaw?[/quote] You built a case based around this "Ratio" to claim that Fusions need a nerf because their value compared to a subset of other weapons is higher. Yet you left out the list of weapons that have a higher Ratio than Erentil on Quickplay. If you want to be consistent with your model, those 9 weapons would need a nerf before Erentil. If you agree to that, then perhaps there's no flaw, but I doubt anyone would agree those weapons need nerfs in the current sandbox. [quote]Do you have a better way to look at the data that isn't subjective?[/quote] Quickplay Population > Competitive Population In terms of "being more representative": Ratios in Quickplay > Ratios in Competitive Why? because Usage (a variable used in your Ratio model) is more significant in a mode (Quickplay) in which there's a higher population. That's not subjective, it's a fact.
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Edited by Eucadia: 11/17/2019 6:31:04 AM
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Exactly!
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Thank you for breaking this down. I've had weirdos on here argue that their usage rate is low therefore they are not easy to use...no correlation
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I believe their usage is low because a large group of people get their hands on Recluse and Luna's and assume they're the best guns for the energy slot because of the public perception and usage numbers. I started using Erentil for Rumble, I've been finally working on Redrix. What a shock, I got 11 wins and 20 podium finishes in 25 matches. I'm a 1.54 K/D, not a top tier PvP player. But when I suck it up and play with guns I know perform better than others (I like to just play and not worry about it, I hate being one of "those guys") I do well. In hindsight we'll be going "I told you so" in the future when they recognize fusions have too much range. They'll blame nerf callers like always, but in this case they really are a little out of balance right now.
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[quote]Thank you for breaking this down. I've had weirdos on here argue that their usage rate is low therefore they are not easy to use...no correlation[/quote] What’s the correlation then? That they are so easy to use that players don’t use them in situations where their only motivation is to get a win? Makes perfect sense.
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The motivation in quickplay is not to get a win...
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[quote]The motivation in quickplay is not to get a win...[/quote] Then what’s with the 6 stacks of players with the most broken loadout possible pub stomping for fake stats, trying to chain as many mercies as possible for a long win streak? Tell me another one. When you look at the usage of weapons in SURVIVAL on each platform high impact fusions aren’t used as much as kinetic special weapons OR primaries in the energy slot. One [i]might[/i] make the top 5 but it’s never close to the usage stats of other weapons in playlists where only winning matters.
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You said it yourself, inflating those stats. Their k.d. e-peen...
