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Edited by tchakael:
9/24/2019 12:21:45 PM
10
Public shaming is bad and even illegal depending where you are from, so this policy protects you and Bungie. When you suspect someone is cheating, report them in game and record a video, upload it to YouTube, make it not listed and send it to Bungie via the suspected cheating form in the link below.
https://www.bungie.net/en/Help/Troubleshoot?oid=13967
English
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You know what else is illegal? Federal cybercrimes, a la DDoSing. Public shaming isn't 'illegal' in most jurisdictions, although making untrue defamatory statements have no defense if the person making those statements knew at the time they were making them that they were untrue. [quote]Public shaming is bad and even illegal depending where you are from, so this policy protects you and Bungie. When you suspect someone is cheating, report them in game and record a video, upload it to YouTube, make it not listed and send it to Bungie via the suspected cheating form in the link below. [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Help/Troubleshoot?oid=13967]https://www.bungie.net/en/Help/Troubleshoot?oid=13967[/url][/quote]
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You can say whatever you like, argue and try to prove what you believe and that we should be witch hunting people and blablabla, but the ToS of this website that you and everybody else agreed in order to use says that public shaming is not allowed, even if the person you are accusing of misbehavior is really wrong, so there's that. DDoSing is also not allowed and when proven, they are banned, and it's really easy to prove, so i don't understand why people get so worked up about it.
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Except the disclaimer on that form scares most people away from using it. Or at least for me it did. You could easily make a mistake, thinking someone is lag switching, when it's just a shitty p2p connection. But that counts as a "false report" which, according to that form, can get [b][i][u]you[/u][/i][/b] banned from the game. Because, you know, looking into suspected cheating in their own game is not what Bungie is here for.
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You can only get banned for the ability to send reports if you are [i]spamming[/i] false reports for a while. A few false reports here and there won't have any negative affect on you.
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I mean, that's good to know, but that's no where close to what it says. They might want to look at rewording it to make it a bit more clear.
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Edited by GrundleBeans: 9/25/2019 11:59:49 PMThe in-game reporting screens have no wording about making false reports, nor does the Help article about reporting players. Bungie simply shows what options players have to report other players of that are against their policies. But if you have a suggestion on how they might better word things or add wording, I recommend you start a post in the Feedback forum.
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If you follow the link above there is a section called Report Suspected Cheating Contact Form. Under that title there is this wording: [quote]Fraudulent reports and submissions unrelated to cheating may result in disciplinary actions against your account.[/quote] To me, that sounds like if the incident you report is found to not be cheating, you'll receive negative action. It also states that what may appear as cheating could be a bad connection. While this is true, it and other statements under this same section seem to be (intentionally) worded in such a way that could dissuade users from reporting suspected cheating. Yes there are other means to report suspected cheating. But one criticism about in game reporting is the issue of people leaving matches early. They don't appear on the post game reports, thus it's hard to report them. When asked about this, I have seen Mentors, Ninjas, Bungie employees, etc refer the person back to this form. One that has wording trying to persuade users from reporting each other. Let's face it, Destiny has a cheating problem that Bungie is unwilling/unable to address. Beyond this, let's say it is just a bad connection. Didn't Bungie say [b][i][u]months[/u][/i][/b] ago now, that they were going to start addressing users with poor connections as severely as cheating, if the issue caused continuous disruption to game play? And yet, they don't seem to take action in any sort of way about any of these problems. And look, I LOVE Destiny. And I know you guys work hard. But it's time to start owning up to some of the mistakes that have been made. Even if you can't immediately fix them. Admitting them would go a long way here.
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Edited by tchakael: 9/24/2019 3:05:24 PMThese disclaimers are made with the exact purpose to make you think twice before sending something, so people don't spam messages to Bungie. If you feel the need to use the form and you have evidence of your claim, why would you be scared? They will not just ban you for your first contact, they will reply to you with a DM telling there was no evidence of cheating. If you don't accept it and keep spamming them, that will get you a ban. No one at Bungie is out to get you.
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Why should the customer, the end user, be responsible for doing Bungie's job for them (and unpaid, at that)? And then to be threatened with a ban if we're mistaken about someone cheating? It's Bungie's job to enforce _their_ rules on _their_ game. Not to mention the huge rigamarole it is to record and upload video evidence of cheating, especially since many kinds of cheating involving kicking players out of the match, out of the game, or indeed, off the internet entirely... which has the annoying side effect of also erasing any record of the last match you playing when you got disconnected, which means you have to go into your account details and look up your last match. Bungie's 'report' button in-game only works if you're still in the match: as soon as you get kicked out of the match, you can still look up the name of the person who was cheating, but going to their profile and reporting them will only report them to XBL/PSN, the report won't go to Bungie. I'd be more inclined to take Bungie's claims of taking cheating seriously, if they actually created a robust system of justice where it's very easy and simple for people to send a report of cheating to Bungie, so that everything is automated and accessible _in-game_, rather than have to fiddle about with game video recording software on PC (which may or may not get flagged by Bungie's anti-cheat as, well, a 'cheat' :P), or having to transfer Xbox console recordings to a PC and then uploading that recording to Bungie. [quote]These disclaimers are made with the exact purpose to make you think twice before sending something, so people don't spam messages to Bungie. If you feel the need to use the form and you have evidence of your claim, why would you be scared? They will not just ban you for your first contact, they will reply to you with a DM telling there was no evidence of cheating. If you don't accept it and keep spamming them, that will get you a ban. No one at Bungie is out to get you.[/quote]
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That's the nature of the game. You can report them in game and with the information from that match a Bungie employee will try to determine if your claim is true, with a video recording it's easier to see what happened through your eyes. I believe it was Deej that once said that you can't shoot a gun in this game without Bungie knowing it, but due do the network architecture of the game being P2P, they can't record a match with players positioning and replicate on their end like for example Blizzard does with Overwatch, they only have data, they don't have visual confirmation, it would be just too much data to save on a server for that. I know you will say that i'm defending and all, that Bungie should save everything from every match, and well, sucks to think like you because that will never change while Bungie keeps the P2P and i don't see them doing it because 90% of the snapiness and joy of control of this game is due to it.
