[quote]So you think that all the seasons should be free?[/quote] If Bungie wants to go Free to Play, then yes it should be treated like Warframe, Dauntless, Apex Legends, Fortnite and Paladins etc. and be completely free. Especially they are hell bent on keeping Eververse and their new Battle Pass System. Developers can’t and shouldn’t be allowed to have it both ways, they can’t and shouldn’t charge for a Game and it’s Expansions AND have MTX and Battle Passes and monetize like it’s Free to Play when it isn’t. [quote]Is $10 really too much money to pay for some extra content?[/quote] For some people yes, especially if they are financially tight and can’t afford it. [quote]I remember when $15 bought you 4 CoD maps.[/quote] [quote]If you hate MTX so much, you should really go and complain to the company that showed they could be used to make billions. That Dev team is called Rockstar.[/quote] I know you want to jump on the bandwagon of “bUt dEvElOpErs nEeD MtX to mAkE biLliOnS!” No, they don’t. CDPR has fully funded The Witcher Series without MTX of any kind. The Game Sales funded the DLC, the DLC funded more DLC and the Game and DLC funded the Witcher 2 and it’s DLC and it’s DLC and so on. And they are using the revenue from the Witcher Series to fund their next project Cyberpunk2077. There are still Developers who are proving everyday that the old System of DLC works without monetizing to death their communities. The reason why Developers who stick with the old model of DLC make it work is cause they actually create a game that sells by making Lengthy Campaigns with immersive Storytelling, Addicting Gameplay etc. and do just fine. Borderlands 3 has no MTX in it. Yes, they have a Vanity Store via Crazy Earl but you can’t buy his Cosmetics with real money, you can’t buy Iridium with real money etc. you play the game, get the currency and spend it on what you like. Loot isn’t Reskinned and boring etc. [quote]The MTX in the Destiny universe is still not pay to win. Ever since Eververse was introduced, the MTX haters, kept saying, "it will be a slippery slope." 4 years later, still just cosmetics.[/quote] MTX don’t have to be Pay to Win to be scummy and greedy. Eververse is all Cosmetic yes, but it’s still scummy and greedy. When a Game I (and the Majority of the Destiny Community) spent $180+ dollars on already between the Base Game and the Expansions/Annual Passes up to this point, and now Bungie wants to charge me extra for Cosmetic Items so we can look cool and Badass? For that 180+ dollars we all spent on D2 all of Eververse should be free of charge and to be obtainable via Raids, Strikes, Nightfalls etc. Call me Entitled all you want but I’m really not. I came from a era of gaming where when you bought a game, you got not only the game, but you got all the Cosmetics that came with it that unlocked via achievement such as “Beat (insert game here) on Heroic/Legendary Difficulty, beat (insert game here) on the Dark Side Ending etc. Cosmetics were apart of the Game, not an additional thing for a additional price tag. BL3 has been a breath of fresh air cause it takes me bsck to those days. I’m sad to see it, but the new Generation of Gaming is destroying the Industry and Games in general cause you guy’s excuse bad business models that rip more money out of people’s wallets then what Bungie has already made off the Game and its Expansions to this point. One last bit. [quote]You shouldn't say you don't hate Destiny and then list a bunch of the current things that make up D2 that you hate. Or say Destiny is great I love it, but hate Bungie. Without Bungie there is no Destiny.[/quote] You are so wrong here my dude. I’m allowed to hate certain business practices/models an the Direction that a Game is headed in and still like the franchise. I’ve liked that Destiny has been a Shooter Looter up to this point. But now Destiny is going into the direction of WoW and the whole FOMO Model of “had to be there when...” and Time Gating Loot and Activities only to remove them at the end of a Season which is stupid in every way imaginable. Bungie is designing the future of Destiny for the Freeloading No Lifers and Streamers (the Hardcore Player) and steering away from the Casual Players (not the Casuals that destroyed D2Y1 who want everything handed to them and for everything to be easy but the Casuals who have actual lives Families, Jobs/Careers, Kids, Girlfriends/Boyfriends Social Lives etc. who can’t play Destiny like a Full Time Job/Career like the Freeloading No Lifers and Streamers can that Bungie wants. Games are meant to be played as a pass time not a Career/Job that preys on FOMO. (Gotta do ABC before time runs out!! OH MY GOD!!! Go beat the clock or you will never get these bad ass looking cosmetics and loot!! And if you can’t play as much, pay us money to finish out your Battle Pass”) sorry, can’t play games that want me to revolve around IT rather IT revolve around ME and my schedule that I can just pick up and play at anytime at my leisure without pressure from a clock that I have to beat.

Should really try adding paragraphs. It actually makes reading large chunks of text easier. But to address some of your points. With Shadowkeep and all the seasons going forward, Bungie will be getting, the vast majority of profits. They will still have investors to pay, but most will go to them. Prior to Shadowkeep, Bungie only got between 20-35% of the profits made. So out of that $180 you've spent, you've only paid Bungie $36 - $63 dollars. Which oddly enough, is close to the same price you will pay going forward. If you have bought all of the content up until Shadowkeep, for $65 you get Shadowkeep and the next roughly 40 weeks of content. Post Activision, for anyone that hasn't spent any money on D2, they can buy all 3 years worth of content for $85. If you really can't afford $10 for 10 weeks of gaming, then I'm sorry, but not sure you should be gaming in the first place. Or perhaps shouldn't be playing D2. --‐------- Now, you say you don't like Bungie taking Destiny in a WoW like direction. I personally, love that they are taking it in that direction, and maybe that's a key factor in you and I not agreeing. ------------ Not sure what your issue with the seasonal rank system, is? I could see your issue, if it was an additional cost added onto having to pay the $10 for the season, but it isn't. It's included in the $10 price tag. And, as far as I can tell, is a direct response to many people on this forum, that don't want to be, "forced," into playing activities to get rewards. Certain rewards will simply be earned by gaining experience while playing. And if you just want to play the basic modes, you can play those modes, and gain rewards, all while paying nothing. And if you want to actually pay the $10, to get access to the other activities/weapon quests, you simply get those rewards quicker, and extras as well. ----------- Finally, CD Projekt is not a good example to use, when comparing games, and their use of MTX, imo. They are a single company, that has made a few games with one being a blockbuster, Witcher 3. But since they are a single company, they got almost all of those profits, so have tons of capital to put forth toward their next game. And Cyberpunk 2077 looks amazing, and I'm sure I will get it, when it comes out. Of course, I am an older gamer that makes enough money to have a decent gaming budget. So I can afford to pay for and play multiple games at a time. But look at Bungie's development history. The 2 gaming franchises that they help build, Halo, and Destiny, were built and published with large corporate backing. And Both Microsoft and Activision got the majority of money made from those franchises. If Bungie would have had more financial security from the beginning, like CD Projekt, and could have finished and sold Halo and Destiny 1 ,on their own, and not only received 20 to 40% of the profits, perhaps things would be different. MTX, would still probably be a thing however. Because building and selling games is still a business. And businesses need to make profits. Profits to cover their costs as well enticing investments from investors. If the gaming industry hadn't decided to lock gaming prices, not following the normal inflation rate, MTX would have been a less likely outcome. Base games would cost closer to $90 at this point. But that extra $30, would help cover the ever increasing cost of doing business. They instead, locked the price around $60, depending on your local taxes. And then introduced optional, additional ways for the gamers playing their games to spend money. And gamers started spending crap tons of money. GTA V, is the most profitable entertainment media of all time. It has made Rockstar 6.6 billion dollars. It is unrealistic to think other companies would see those profits, and not want to try to get some of that action. ----------- To wrap up. For the first time in Bungie's history, they have the full rights to a popular game. They are now free to either succeed or to fail on their own merits. You can either choose to support them on this endeavor and buy Shadowkeep and the following seasons. Or cry foul on them, and not continue to support them. And hell, you can keep playing basic Destiny 2, for absolutely nothing. Have a great day.

[quote]Should really try adding paragraphs. It actually makes reading large chunks of text easier. But to address some of your points. With Shadowkeep and all the seasons going forward, Bungie will be getting, the vast majority of profits. They will still have investors to pay, but most will go to them. Prior to Shadowkeep, Bungie only got between 20-35% of the profits made. So out of that $180 you've spent, you've only paid Bungie $36 - $63 dollars. Which oddly enough, is close to the same price you will pay going forward. If you have bought all of the content up until Shadowkeep, for $65 you get Shadowkeep and the next roughly 40 weeks of content. Post Activision, for anyone that hasn't spent any money on D2, they can buy all 3 years worth of content for $85. [quote]If you really can't afford $10 for 10 weeks of gaming, then I'm sorry, but not sure you should be gaming in the first place. Or perhaps shouldn't be playing D2.[/quote] It’s not that I CAN’T afford it. I can if I really wanted to. But paying $10 bucks for Content every Season with that Content that my $10 bucks goes to being removed at the end of a Season doesn’t scream “hey, give me money” to me. When I buy a product, I want to keep all my Content. Vex Offensive for Season of the Undying should stay permanently not get removed. --‐------- [quote]Now, you say you don't like Bungie taking Destiny in a WoW like direction. I personally, love that they are taking it in that direction, and maybe that's a key factor in you and I not agreeing.[quote] I like how they want to be an MMO like WoW. But it’s the whole “removing content WE pay for” is unacceptable and it’s literally theft when you think about it. They first take your money, then your Content is removed. That is extremely a bad business model and one I can’t support. ------------ [quote]Not sure what your issue with the seasonal rank system, is?[/quote] You don’t see the issue with Seasonal Ranks via Battle Pass? Allow me to explain. I’m sure you’ve heard it all over these forums. But by having Seasonal Cosmetic Loot and Activities as a Temporary thing that goes away after a Season literally heavily Weaponizes FOMO. By Time Gating Loot and Activities that we may enjoy doing. People don’t like being Psychologically Manipulated to play Destiny. With Bungie’s new direction for Destiny, it literally requires you to play Destiny as a Career/Full Time Job. There are many who agree. I could see your issue, if it was an additional cost added onto having to pay the $10 for the season, but it isn't. It's included in the $10 price tag. And, as far as I can tell, is a direct response to many people on this forum, that don't want to be, "forced," into playing activities to get rewards. Certain rewards will simply be earned by gaining experience while playing. And if you just want to play the basic modes, you can play those modes, and gain rewards, all while paying nothing. And if you want to actually pay the $10, to get access to the other activities/weapon quests, you simply get those rewards quicker, and extras as well. ----------- Finally, CD Projekt is not a good example to use, when comparing games, and their use of MTX, imo. They are a single company, that has made a few games with one being a blockbuster, Witcher 3. But since they are a single company, they got almost all of those profits, so have tons of capital to put forth toward their next game. And Cyberpunk 2077 looks amazing, and I'm sure I will get it, when it comes out. Of course, I am an older gamer that makes enough money to have a decent gaming budget. So I can afford to pay for and play multiple games at a time. But look at Bungie's development history. The 2 gaming franchises that they help build, Halo, and Destiny, were built and published with large corporate backing. And Both Microsoft and Activision got the majority of money made from those franchises. If Bungie would have had more financial security from the beginning, like CD Projekt, and could have finished and sold Halo and Destiny 1 ,on their own, and not only received 20 to 40% of the profits, perhaps things would be different. [quote]MTX, would still probably be a thing however. Because building and selling games is still a business. And businesses need to make profits. Profits to cover their costs as well enticing investments from investors.[/quote] I don’t have a problem with Businesses making a profit but it’s HOW they make that profit concerns me. MTX shouldn’t be one of them from Shadowkeep on out. Hell I’d settle for a -blam!-ing Monthly Subscription model over MTX at this point if it allows me to keep my Content and Loot not hidden behind Time Gates and preying on FOMO. [quote]If the gaming industry hadn't decided to lock gaming prices, not following the normal inflation rate, MTX would have been a less likely outcome. Base games would cost closer to $90 at this point. But that extra $30, would help cover the ever increasing cost of doing business.[/quote] Considering Bungie has multiple editions for D2 at launch, I’d say they weren’t locked on the price the Gaming Industry has set. And seeing Shadowkeep having multiple editions depending on how well it sells (which I’m guessing not very well due to many who agree with my side of the concern for the future of Destiny and are abandoning the franchise as well as me) then Bungie won’t need MTX. But my over all point is, Warframe gets by with one stream of income and CDPR is getting by on one stream of Income, Bungie can as well. Hell Borderlands has one stream of Income and they’re on track to creating DLC. Needing MTX to thrive is a fallacy. They instead, locked the price around $60, depending on your local taxes. And then introduced optional, additional ways for the gamers playing their games to spend money. And gamers started spending crap tons of money. GTA V, is the most profitable entertainment media of all time. It has made Rockstar 6.6 billion dollars. It is unrealistic to think other companies would see those profits, and not want to try to get some of that action. ----------- To wrap up. For the first time in Bungie's history, they have the full rights to a popular game. They are now free to either succeed or to fail on their own merits. You can either choose to support them on this endeavor and buy Shadowkeep and the following seasons. Or cry foul on them, and not continue to support them. And hell, you can keep playing basic Destiny 2, for absolutely nothing. Have a great day.[/quote]

You agreed, when confirming/accepting the ToS, that you were merely paying for access to D2 content, not the content itself. So if you don't like paying for content that eventually gets removed, does that mean you don't pay for any of the streaming services? Netflix, Hulu, and tons of other media streaming sites/apps, have content that comes and goes. I pay $100 bucks a year for the NFL Gamepass. So I can watch the football games I miss. But I pay that money knowing that I will lose access to those games eventually. FOMO, is a millennial term. Often used by people who feel they are entitled to endless content for little to no price. Why fear missing out on something, like seasonal content in a video game? And it is entirely voided by the fact you can buy the seasons separately if you choose. If you know you can't or won't have much time to play a certain season, then don't pay the $10 for that season. The rest of us, who play weekly, won't miss out. If you barely play, I can understand your complaint some. But let's say you can only play 5 out of 10 weeks of a season. You are still getting those 5 weeks for $2 a week. Facts: It costs money to build and publish video game content. Bungie employees get paid salaries so Bungie needs to make enough yearly money to make sure their employees get paid every couple of weeks. The seasons are optional. Play or don't play. Buy or don't buy. The choice is yours.

[quote]You agreed, when confirming/accepting the ToS, that you were merely paying for access to D2 content, not the content itself. So if you don't like paying for content that eventually gets removed, does that mean you don't pay for any of the streaming services? [quote]Netflix, Hulu, and tons of other media streaming sites/apps, have content that comes and goes. I pay $100 bucks a year for the NFL Gamepass. So I can watch the football games I miss. But I pay that money knowing that I will lose access to those games eventually.[/quote] I’m sorry, but Video Games are not and should not be treated like those services at all cause they ARE NOT those services period. [quote]FOMO, is a millennial term. Often used by people who feel they are entitled to endless content for little to no price.[/quote] HAH!! Little to no price? Are you serious dude?! With the $180 bucks I and many others spent already on this Game, that isn’t a “little to no price” this is laughable. And those who are staying with this series with it’s new direction are spending another $35 to $60 bucks for Shadowkeep isn’t a “Little to no price” we aren’t “entitled.” When we spend money on a Game, we want our stuff to be there whenever WE choose to play it, not have it removed at the end of a Season, we’re right to be upset about it. [quote]Why fear missing out on something, like seasonal content in a video game?[/quote] Many people on here are collectors and part of being a collector IS to have it all, that isn’t entitlement, that’s just being a collector and we shouldn’t be time gated, we should be able to collect cosmetic or other wise everything without having to beat a clock. I can tell you straight up, Shadowkeep isn’t going to sell nearly as much as Borderlands 3. Why? Cause it is a Game that we can play as much as we want, take off for 6 Months for other games, come back to it and know that we can pick up where we left off. THAT is how Destiny should be. Seasonal Content wouldn’t be so bad if it didn’t have a STORY attached to it that people will miss out on, not so much as the Cosmetics and the Events. And it is entirely voided by the fact you can buy the seasons separately if you choose. If you know you can't or won't have much time to play a certain season, then don't pay the $10 for that season. The rest of us, who play weekly, won't miss out. If you barely play, I can understand your complaint some. But let's say you can only play 5 out of 10 weeks of a season. You are still getting those 5 weeks for $2 a week. [quote]Facts: It costs money to build and publish video game content. Bungie employees get paid salaries so Bungie needs to make enough yearly money to make sure their employees get paid every couple of weeks. The seasons are optional. Play or don't play. Buy or don't buy. The choice is yours.[/quote] Bungie can make money the old fashioned way of the Gaming Industry did before MTX and Loot Boxes. Game Developers got by with it before, they can do it again. Borderlands 3 has no MTX or Loot Boxes and their Sales Number are up by a lot and they’ll be using that money to fund the DLC’s coming out.