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1/21/2019 11:37:01 PM
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Apparently Bungie have never heard of the Streisand Effect. :P [quote]"The Streisand effect is a phenomenon whereby an attempt to hide, remove, or censor a piece of information has the unintended consequence of publicizing the information more widely, usually facilitated by the internet. It is an example of psychological reactance, wherein once people are aware that some information is being kept from them, their motivation to access and spread it is increased.[1]"[/quote] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect
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  • That's not what's happening though. They're not censoring posts. They're removing spam If they were censoring posts why did they explicitly and purposefully leave the remove core posts with the most upvotes?

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  • Spam is if one person keeps repeating the same thing over and over again. Each thread on the same topic, started by a different person is not 'spam', it's simply one Bungie customer expressing an opinion. Every paying customer is entitled to an opinion on the product they purchased, whether Bungie agree with it or not, and no one is obligated to express their opinion in someone else's thread. It's quite telling that in all the years these forums have been operational (and certainly since the days when I first began to frequent these forums, back in the Halo 3 days), Bungie have not made one serious attempt to actually moderate their own forums, and allowed rampant hate speech to go unchecked, particularly in the 'Offtopic' forums but also in other game-related forums... until now. And why now? Because a large percentage of the people who read and post on Bungie's own forums are asking for a specific change to the game to make the game more fun and less tedious, and Bungie's stubborn refusal to cater to their own customers has created a situation where the only way for Bungie to save face was to systematically remove those posts critical of their decision. And remove them they did, as one forum Ninja even admitted in their own post, right before threatening people with bans if they continued to make new threads on that topic. Sure, some were 'moved' and consolidated into a main thread, but the whole point of making individual posts was as a form of digital protest to ensure that it would be unavoidable for any Bungie employee to _not_ see this as soon as they checked the forums tab. Moreover, each individual thread represented an individual vote by a paying customer, and the sheer number of individual threads created by separate people clearly shows _other players_ that this is an issue of concern to many players, not just a few. Consolidating these individual threads into one main post may _seem_ like a good idea, but all it does is result in one huge main thread that many people not interested in endlessly scrolling down for pages and pages of replies, may very well never get read... whereas a simple, one-line post where a player's position on the matter is articulated in the thread header, serves to not only keep the topic fresh in everyone's minds but ensures that _any other player_ who checks the forums tab will see exactly how many people, and who, are in support of a change to the Enhancement core economy. Regardless of whether Bungie have a 'right' to remove posts on their own forums at their discretion, the reality is that doing so, and threatening their own customers with bans if they continued to express their opinions on the game, are counterproductive to a constructive discussion on the matter, but _particularly_ because Bungie have thus far failed to address the issue entirely and have not even given any good reasons as to their intransigence, this is rapidly snowballing into a public relations nightmare of epic proportions. Because it's one thing for players to complain about Enhancement core economy and for Bungie to do nothing (as usual), but another thing entirely when Bungie are actively silencing their own paying customers on Bungie's own forums, forums that Bungie failed to adequately police with regard to far more important issues such as hate speech, which would suggest that Bungie's sudden interest in 'cleaning up' said forums seems to coincide with yet another Bungie public relations disaster, and thus, entirely an attempt to control the public narrative with regard to the 'Enhancement core' debacle, rather than engage in an honest and sincere discussion with their own player base, their own fans, their own customers, regarding the state of the game and where the game is headed, and above all, all the ways in which the game might be improved for the fun and benefit of everyone who plays this game (and paid for the privilege). And, as I pointed out in response to aforementioned forum Ninja's threatening post on this very matter, not only is this not a _new_ thing for Bungie (there was a similar public backlash against Eververse a while back), but that this is not even a new thing for game devs and publishers in general: EA/BioWare did the _exact_ same thing, 8 years ago, regarding criticism of both Dragon Age 2, and before that, Mass Effect 3, and it predictably led to bad press in games journals and on social media. So regardless of whether Bungie have a _right_ to do censor their own players or not, the end result is that it looks bad for Bungie to be doing this, and players are rightfully upset about it. Bungie should heed the lessons learned from the mistakes other game devs and publishers have made in the past, like this gem from 2011 by BioWare: https://www.gamersnexus.net/news/520-bioware-locks-critical-posts-alleges-spam Sadly, it seems EA/BioWare didn't learn from their own mistakes, as they not only eventually shutdown their own forums (just in time to avoid having to deal with any criticisms of Mass Effect Andromeda :P), but before that, they were actively censoring players' posts on certain topics that were critical of a BioWare product. In fact, the deleted criticisms of Dragon Age 2 wasn't even the first time BioWare/EA deleted players' posts that were even remotely critical of BioWare games: they did the exact same thing during the hoopla over the Mass Effect 3 ending, including deleting a _very_ popular thread that went on for thousands of posts where people came up with very creative solutions and fan theories trying to explain the ME3 ending, or rewriting it to a better, more satisfying ending. All that creative labour, a labour of love by BioWare's own fans... deleted. Gone. Forever. And players were _pissed_. Although I didn't quit ME3 multiplayer over that particular issue, it was just one of a myriad reasons why I eventually quit playing ME3 multiplayer and pretty much gave up on EA/BioWare (and why I am highly skeptical of Anthem, not of the game itself necessarily but of how BioWare/EA are going to run the game, and how they plan on dealing with any criticism of the game by their own players). And I'm someone who not only preordered ME3 collector's edition, but I actually bought 3 copies: 1 on Xbox 360, 2 on PC. Likewise, I've bought not only the original Destiny 1 on disc, new, but I also bought the complete digital editions of both D1 and D2, mostly because I was tired of swapping discs. :P I'm sure many players here are hardcore fans who bought every expansion Bungie put out, and have been fans of the Halo franchise since the very first day they bought Halo: Combat Evolved, the way I was, and I think we're all sad to see that a game development company held in such high regard has fallen so low as to start deleting their own paying customers' constructive criticisms, or shuffling said posts around in an effort to take control of the narrative and do damage control to their rapidly tanking reputation. You have to understand that most players who bought these games, we worked hard for our money, in some cases having to save up to buy them, and to be treated like this by a company that we constantly praised and often defended, is incredibly disheartening and disappointing. I may not expect much from a capitalist corporation interested only in their bottom line and shareholder dividends, but I think we all hoped that there was at least a shadow of the former Bungie that used to make brilliant games that actually worked as intended, and not this laggy, cheater-filled, tedious, unfun chore that Destiny 2 is. And I recently learned that it's even against the forum rules to discuss any specific forum bans on the forums, which means there is zero accountability in terms of what sort of judgments that forum moderators might dish out to Bungie's paying customers, just because we posted something that Bungie didn't want to read. And I don't want to participate in a community forum where I can be censored or banned _at will_ simply for stating my opinion, nor do I want to play a game run by a game company that would do that to their own customers, with zero public accountability.

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  • Edited by draycole: 1/24/2019 1:14:33 PM
    So... It is spam. Spam doesn't have to be from a single person for it to be spam. And to that I have to ask.... Why now? Why did everyone suddenly want to start making these posts at the same time? Because it got trendy to do so and get upvotes. 50 posts all saying the same 5 words isn't constructive criticism It's spam. . And its not censoring. By definition of the word censorship, what they've done is not censorship. What the community wants, and the top posts representing that are still here on this forum still getting upvotes. As for bungies right to ban their customers. It's their forum This isn't an area of free speech. It's bungies property and their word is law here.

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  • Do you expect any thread moderator to be of sufficient intelligence to comprehend this?

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