Pinnacle weapons aren't the problem. They weren't a new addition in D2, they were a good part of D1 as well courtesy of The Lighthouse.

Pinnacle weapons here require a quest, making them harder to get for most than just playing 7-8 games. Those weapons also didn't feel as rediculous as some like Not Forgotten. Doctrine of passing was there but it wasn't as bad, and you didn't see it as often as you see Not Forgotten and Luna's.

You probably forgot about the adept weapons.

[quote]About the pinnacle weapons, the issue is obviously the fact that they exist. I'm serious, it's fine to want to chase something if you're a top players but when matchmaking in QP allows for those same players who have those pinnacle weapons to play against those who don't? That's unfair and shouldn't be happening, it breaks the game, it becomes something people despise. Every choice Bungie make is their choice. Doesn't matter why they make the choice, it's their choice. They COULD minimise the issues several ways we've all pointed out and requested for YEARS but they won't. Instead they let people point the finger at each other rather than at where the issues begin, bungie. People want to chase pinnacle weapons, they get the weapons and then they no longer have something to chase so they go to QP where they know they will stomp people courtesy of bungie. They won't stick to comp because it's super sweaty at the top, naturally. Why should anyone suffer in QP for the sake of someone who wanted something to chase?[/quote] You missed the point. This is what the community asked for. And maybe you in particular didn’t but the community did. This is actually my point. Just because there are LOUD voices Doesn’t mean it’s what the majority of the community wants or what the game needs. Every single thing that the community says is bad in crucible right now, with the exception of the matchmaking itself, is stuff that the COMMUNITY ITSELF has constantly, tirelessly hounded Bungie for.

Ah, I understand better now. You're definitely correct about the louder voices of the community not voicing what the game or community actually needs. I can understand wanting more to chase, I consider myself a pretty hardcore player, at least more dedicated than the average player, but there are some things that shouldn't be given. That, is in part on Bungie. It's good to give the hardcore base more end game, etc but when it comes to the pinnacle weapons, I don't think that's the solution. Have other things to chase, cosmetics for the top players to show off. If that's not enough to chase, I guess it's not for you.

[quote]Ah, I understand better now. You're definitely correct about the louder voices of the community not voicing what the game or community actually needs.[/quote] Right. And the squeaky wheel always gets the oil. On a different note, and hear me out and look at my reasons for just a second, I personally don’t have a problem with the pinnacle weapons and i only just got Luna’s. It underperforms your expectations. (Not that it’s underperforming, it’s where it should be I think). In any sort of range at all it’s damage falloff is steep. If you don’t land crits you won’t get the kill. Also bygones can out perform it at medium range half the time, and if it’s more range, all the time. Not forgotten I will never have I’m just not good enough, but it’s rare enough to not be a problem currently. Additionally with a grind you will get Luna’s, causing almost everyone who grinds for it to have it. I have like a 1.1 comp kd and as such am completely mid-tier, through and through, and with a lot of grinding and figuring out how to play in effective ways I was able to get it in 3 weeks, solo que all the way. For example: if you are paired with a team of 3 or even just a team of solos, puppy dog them. Stay close by then to enable teamshotting to make up for potential skill gaps between the teams and lost communication The problem is the same problem that it’s always been, first with Uriel’s gift and other autos of the same frame, Mida next, graviton lance after that, then vigilance wing, now bygones and Luna’s: everyone’s using it, so it appears to be god their because a lot of the time it’s what kills you, despite the fact that there may be 3 on the enemy team and every single other weapon may be unique on the team, meaning you have a 3/12 chance to get killed by it in qp, or 3/8 in comp, and the other guns you’d have a 1/12 or 1/8 chance.

I have Luna's as well, not sure about my stats though but it took me about 2 weeks of just comp to get, plus finding a team through my travels. You're right in that it's not super broken or common, however recently I've been getting put up against more and more people with Not Forgotten, that is not a fun fight at all. I think that part of my problem is that the game has gone from extremely slow paced to fast paced again but even then, there's just so few super good weapons, unless it's just me who feels that way. Again, I get why people want pinnacle weapons but considering the state of competitive, I can definitely understand why so many don't even want to grind for the weapons. Even through those 2 weeks when I played, it was always stressful, almost never fun and quite often frustrating. Nobody wants to grind for something when the entire time, you're fighting frustration, bad connections and let's face it, questionable matchmaking.

[quote]Again, I get why people want pinnacle weapons but considering the state of competitive, I can definitely understand why so many don't even want to grind for the weapons. Even through those 2 weeks when I played, it was always stressful, almost never fun and quite often frustrating. Nobody wants to grind for something when the entire time, you're fighting frustration, bad connections and let's face it, questionable matchmaking.[/quote] That’s all very true all I’m saying is those problems are separate from Luna’s, despite plaguing the path to Luna’s. The game was fine without pinnacle weapons, and I think it’s fine with them.

That's a fair statement. I was just meaning originally that people who complain about the pinnacle weapons are those who can't or don't want to go through what we've been through for a better weapon. Luna's isn't god tier or anything but it outclasses a few weapons and with so many small-medium sized maps it's pretty good... Except for the special spam :P I'm glad to have a civilized conversation with someone here though on this topic.

[quote]I'm glad to have a civilized conversation with someone here though on this topic.[/quote] Same here. Too much toxicity in the forums these days Honestly I almost wish they’d give a “free Luna’s howl trial” 2 weeks or something to show the community that Luna’s howl isn’t the end-all-be-all they think it is, and for those who do like it but couldn’t be bothered before to maybe become inspired to take on the task. But I have a feeling it would blow up in their faces when the event ended because people would be upset they took it away.

Yeah, there's not really much of a solution here. SBMM would keep top tier players out of games they just stomp in for the most part but nobody wants that in QP which I understand but also question... We just have to wait and see... My favourite part.

[quote]Yeah, there's not really much of a solution here. SBMM would keep top tier players out of games they just stomp in for the most part but nobody wants that in QP which I understand but also question... We just have to wait and see... My favourite part.[/quote] I honestly don’t really understand why sbmm would be a problem in crucible... like why do people oppose it so absolutely?

I think probably because that means that every game is sweaty, but as it is now, you get destroyed one Gabe and stomp in the next. Oh and also I think SBMM was on in D1 at some point and my friends and I couldn't play together at all. Too much varying skill level resulted in have that were all over the place and weren't fun for some. I can definitely see the pro's and con's.

I understand that. I also get that every match is sweaty but every non-sweaty match you get in the current system is a game where someone else is getting completely shat on, and that’s not fun for them lol. And then you’re in their place the next game, like you said, or if you’re top tier you are never challenged at all.