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Edited by Spawn:
10/10/2018 6:49:19 PM
209
Bringing Sniping Back in Destiny 2! (To: Sandbox Team)
Sandbox Team.
With the next few updates I think a large portion of the community would be really happy to see some positive changes for snipers in the crucible.
In today's meta, the strength, range, ammo advantages, and overall usability of shotguns make them a clear choice as the superior weapon. Many of us want to branch out and use snipers but with how they work in the game today... it's just not realistic.
- [b]Flinch[/b]
I think anyone who has attempted to snipe in the past few weeks will tell you that the flinch on snipers in unreasonably bad. The maps are already small but even when you are far enough away and well within "sniper" range, a handcannon shot from across the map can still send your reticle into the sky. I think most of us don't mind how powerful pulses are in the current meta but a sniper should be the better choice at longe ranges... and right now it's clearly not.
Also, horizontal flinch is probably one of the most frustrating game mechanics and makes all snipers feel very flimsy.
- [b]Handling[/b]
If you put Destiny 1 back into your console and pull out a sniper, you'll immediately notice that holding one feels much different. It doesn't have the sluggish feeling that most snipers in Destiny 2 (Note: on console)
- [b]Scopes[/b]
Small maps in Destiny 2 is fun. It keeps the gameplay exciting knowing there are always enemies right around the corner. The fact that snipers are long scoped, high zoomed weapons makes them really tough to use in most situations. Most lanes are not more than a few hundred feet, so using a long range scope on these maps is about as useful as trying to use a telescope to read a book. It's just unnecessary and does more harm than good.
- [b]Aim Assist / Hitbox Size[/b]
I truly believe that you can fix snipers even if you only touch ONE of these two things. If you want to argue that snipers shouldn't have aim assist and everyone should just [i]get good[/i] that's fine but then we need to increase the size of the hitbox. Just play a game with a sniper or watch someone else do it. The amount of times that you will get a body shot that you thought was a headshot is far too often. Watching the clips back in slow motion, I really think the hitbox is just too small. That combined with the flinch means that you will lose most 1v1's where the other player is looking your general direction.
- [b]Damage[/b]
Imagine you hear a super pop, you are aware of their location, manage to escape, gain some distance, turn around and make an incredible play to headshot them. To your dismay, sniping a sentinel / hammer / nova warp in the head only for them to notice you and then proceed to wipe the floor with you using their super is frankly just defeating. You did everything right, you made the right decisions, the skilled play, and still lost. Sniper headshots should kill supers. Enough said.
In conclusion, there is currently not a single situation in the game today where a sniper is the better choice for the everyday player. Up close you will lose to shotguns, sidearms, fusions, etc. At range you will lose to pulses, scouts, and even handcannons. Note: Just because you can get kills with a sniper doesn't mean that it's the better option. Just look at the use rates for snipers. Almost non-existent.
I hope you take this as genuine feedback from a long time supporter who loves the game. You've made a lot of strides in the past year and the snipers in the community are ready to make those legendary plays. We don't want easy mode, we want a chance... to make the legendary plays that made us fall in love with the game back in Destiny 1.
Please upvote this and hopefully @dmg is reading this and will pass it along to the sandbox team.
[spoiler]Moderator edit: This thread has been moved to #Feedback forum so that other Destiny players can weigh in. [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/139533839/0/0] See Cozmo's thread here[/url] for more information about the #Feedback tag and its uses.
Feel free to private message the moderator who moved your post, link to topic for further clarification about why this topic was moved.[/spoiler]
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Snipers are great as is. No changes need to be made. They feel as good if not better than in D1. Now if a shotgunner had to have the skill of a sniper. That'd be much better! Shotguns need a reduction in range and the one shot toe killer needs to go away.
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Edited by zJDz: 10/10/2018 6:13:10 PMWhat? Geekermon posts on the forums? When did this start? Awesome youtuber.
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Edited by Tk: 10/10/2018 6:11:54 PMMaps. We need bigger maps. Game has mostly close quarter maps that suit a rushers playstyle. There should be more veriety, larger maps combined arms, etc and more game modes in general
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7 RepliesSorry but I do not agree at all. Snipers are fine as they are. Making them any more powerful will ruin the game again, remember D1 when people camped with sniper and you could never turn the corner? If u have an issue with shotguns then they can be fixed. Buffing snipers does not balance thingd and they can‘t counter shotties anyway. Also, killing a super should be a team effort, OSK on a super is broken and unfair. U can argue that a guy with a sniper has an advantage against a roaming super that needs to get close to you to cause dmg. Things are good as they are, yes handling and scopes would make things better, but i disagree with your other points. Keep making great content Geeker, best of luck.
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Edited by Vexx: 10/10/2018 6:10:14 PMI agree with all the points you made but, to me, especially the scopes and handling. I don’t know of any (so please tell me if there is) but I’d really like a sniper that has a simple mid range scope or an acog/Mida type scope. I simply find that even the “low zoom” scopes are much too zoomed in that it can almost be disorientating, especially while being shot at. As for handling, you are so right. Snipers feel sluggish and heavy in D2 compared to D1. These are the two changes, if any are made, that I would like to see the most.
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leave the flinch the way it is. as cammycakes once said, "if you're good with a sniper you'll shoot them before they shoot you and you won't worry about flinch"
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4 RepliesThis is why you have low zoom scopes and Enhanced Unflinching Sniper mods on your armour for snipers. It's also helpful if you get Long Shadow with Snapshots/Moving Target and add a Icarus mod to it.
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Maybe you’re just bad? I have no problem sniping well
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I think you have mentioned this in your videos and surprised not to see it mentioned here: A[b]mmo economy.[/b] You spawn with the same amount of ammo as shotguns (which is fine) but shotgun kills have a much better opportunity to collect ammo as they are right on top of their kills. Not sure what the fix would be for this though but it's worth mentioning as support for the case to close the competitive gap between the two gun types.
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Only adaptive & higher snipers should ohk supers because rapid fires delete supers headshot-bodyshot fast enough imo. ^ considering distance like you said. Darci works as a rapid m fire if you wait 1 second to shoot as they rush you.
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1 ReplyI feel that it's mandatory to have a chest armor with "Enhanced Unflinching Sniper Rifle Aim" when using a Sniper Rifle. It makes a huge difference, but Bungie should really further reduce the flinching you take per shot. Maybe reducing the amount of flinch based on the enemy players damage fall off/range of their gun or based on the amount of health you lose per shot. I disagree with adding more Aim Assist. You really don't want another 1,000 Yard Stare situation where people get headshots while scoped on some ones foot. The overall "sluggish" feeling you are noticing is probably the byproduct of how they were Power Weapons before and probably kept that innate Handling/Movement Speed reduction. My only personal gripe with Sniper Rifles are you are only given two shots. It's a lot easier to miss with a Sniper than it is to miss with a Shotgun or Fusion Rifle.
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1 ReplyEdited by Hardfugoo: 10/10/2018 4:32:52 PMSo you’re a Geekermon fan eh? Oh wait you are him lol. I thought this sounded familiar. Hiya Mr Geek!
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I agree the flinch is frustrating when within sniper range. I feel you should get flinched as much as we do now when in sniper range. I do love where the game is now overall though.
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Had to TL;DR it. From my experience, snipers are balanced. I’ve been headshotted in gambit from skilled snipers. The keyword is skill. Shotguns literally take no skill. Slide and pull the trigger. That’s the reason that most noobs play with a shotgun
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2 RepliesOkay this isn’t relevant, but I started snipping after watching a few snipers back in the early days of Destiny. Kjhovey being one of them. So after watching him around the Dark Below, I got a Y-09 and kept it on all the time. After a while I became a very good shot with snipers. I kept with a sniper for 4 years now Anyways, If you buff snipers so more people can use them, you’ll make people who are good with a sniper even better so please take that into consideration. Snipers are in a good state at the moment. They take a disciplined player to use one and a lot of practice. You just have to think more with one. You can’t just sit holding down the sights and profit. You need to be smart and shoot first so flinch isn’t a problem
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Edited by BCFre: 10/10/2018 5:43:05 PMI've been maining a sniper for about a week now in D2 and I think they're fine. The only real issue with snipers is ammo economy, and honestly it's the reason why shotguns are way more prevalent in Crucible. Sandbox team needs to figure out how to make special ammo more accessible for snipers.
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20 RepliesA sniper in the right hands is a killer in the crucible. Sounds to me like you’d just like a crutch because you’re not very good with them.
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NLB added pls. Good ideas though. The meta favors short scope and very little range snipers with as much handling as you can get. The rewards for sniping aren't as high as they could be but deleting someone instantly with a headshot is always fun.
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I don't want anything like D1's 'sniping' meta back at all. 'Sniping' in quotations as most of the time Sniper Rifles were being used in corridors rather than actual long distance.
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I've been maining sniper and auto rifle since the update to weapon slots dropped. In my opinion, sniper rifles are in an okay spot right now. I do agree though on Pulse Rifles being a better option, especially Graviton Lance. That thing is still a beast against anyone who's not wielding a shotgun.
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1 ReplyUmm.... No. There are still plenty of people who dominate with snipers just fine, even with flinch as is. [spoiler]Comp flashbacks intensify[/spoiler]
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Me: *aims at enemy* Enemy: *hits me in the toe with one AR bullet* My sniper rifle: "OH SHIT WHAT'S UP THERE?"
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Originally I'd just say some dumb crap like snipers wear diapers and move on, but variety is a great thing. And as much as I love shotguns its getting to the point where there's more brainless apes that crutch on them than people that use them because it compliments their playstyle, such as myself. Now I have no idea what the best ways to buff the sniper would be because I just started using them, but maybe a reduction in scope zoom level and a slight flinch reduction would be a good start. Also, don't nerf the shotty, buff the things that counter them. You'll see the brainless apes die out because they can't crutch on them without getting bagged by a sidearm or fusion and leave the people that use them as a defensive tool or only when they're right up in the enemies face. Once again, I just started using snipers so don't go checking my sniper kills vs shotgun kills, because spoiler alert, it's mostly shotguns. Because I know someone's gonna try and invalidate this post because of that fact alone....
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I agree, i just started sniping (thanks for the tips in your d1 sniping video) and i would enjoy if bungie added these things.
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I had never brought my ikelos sniper into pvp until yesterday. Didnt fair to well. Only two rounds on spawn plus the zoom made it difficult. I would have loved a scop option or at least more ammo. A few body shots didnt result in kills wich is fine but i felt way to much pressure on each shot knowing that not only did i only have two, but if ammo dropped from the kill, it would be a race to get it
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2 RepliesHonestly the only thing I think needs to be adjusted is the ammo, at least give us a full clip to start with. If you find yourself getting shot gunned with a sniper out all the time you need to learn when to have your primary out and not your sniper. (Im not defending shotguns cause I only snipe) If you give snipers all these buffs it will only promote bad snipers to sit back hardscope and get away with it. Aggressive skilled sniping will always be preferred by good snipers, it's more satisfying and unique. What would you rather see? Someone rushing the enemy team with a sniper and getting kills or a stand still always scoped person sniping people walking into their sights?
