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Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
8/24/2018 2:20:21 AM
13

Streaks are Anti-Competitive and Anti-Fun

What it is that makes Competitive PvP modes fun? The answer is in the question: it is "competitive." Quickplay modes are fun enough for some low-stress matches or maybe to warm up, but at the end of the day, many of us want a PvP challenge. We want close, neck-and-neck matches that go to tied match point and are won (or lost) by a clutch overtime play. And when we pull out that well-earned victory, we want the game's competitive point system to reward us for it. But that just isn't what happens. Because, for some mysterious reason, Bungie (and many other game developers) are obsessed with having these Competitive points be doled out via Streaks, both Win and Loss Streaks. Instead of simply rewarding each victory (or penalizing each defeat) with a set point reward/penalty, they think it more fun to require players to win multiple matches in a row before making any significant progress. They cite it as making the experience more rewarding to succeed in, but that simply couldn't be farther from the truth. Because Streaks, and yes, Win Streaks as much as Loss Streaks, are Anti-Competitive and Anti-Fun. Streaks do not reward the close, neck-and-neck matches that make Competitive modes compelling; in fact, it discourages them. When players get into these types of close, competitive matches, they'll probably get some wins, but nobody can be perfect, so inevitably they'll get some losses, too. These losses always wreak havoc on any hopes of rising in the ranks, since unless you can get consecutive wins, the losses always counteract any progress made. Because of this, instead of enjoying getting paired with challenging opponents that make for interesting matches, players are forced to hope that they will get a bunch of easy "free wins" so that they can finally get that streak to get their rank moving in the right direction. This is the opposite of what you want. Obviously, getting free wins will always make the grind for Comp points easier, but it shouldn't be your ONLY viable way to grind. Instead, the game needs to reward each and every victory in a way that respects the time, energy, and effort put into it. Losses should still hurt, setting you back some points, but should never be so punishing that single losses can cancel out the progress of single wins. This would promote a fun, rewarding, but challenging Competitive experience that rewards those who persevere through tough matches to get the W's. What would this look like? Simple. Remove Streaks from the game (they already are removing Loss Streaks in Update 2.0.0., but Win Streaks need to go too) and increase the point rewards for wins and losses to compensate. For example, a win could be worth +40 points, while a loss could be around a -20 point penalty. Maybe having wins be worth double losses would be a little too easy - these numbers are just off the top of my head - but the two key things are that 1) Wins be worth more than losses in order to reward perseverance even when you aren't winning every match, and 2) Progress over time needs to feel significant enough so that players feel like their time is respected - seeing a bar move 20 points after 6 hours of grinding is not rewarding With all this being said, I am super excited for Update 2.0.0. and the changes it will bring to the Crucible as well as the Glory system, and I hope that it makes good on the promise of a fun, rewarding competitive experience!

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  • Why isn’t the fact they’re removing loss streaks enough? Shouldn’t players who can string together victories be rewarded for it?

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    • I like the idea of getting rewarded for getting win streaks

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    • Sadly, you, like myself, are in the minority. The majority of Destiny players want to face players inferior to them, skill wise, I blame this on the participation trophy mentality. I straight up call them cowards. I also laugh anytime and every time someone mentions Destiny and competitive. It has P2P connections, RNG in your shots, no sbmm, no true ranking system - nothing about it is competitive. When I think of competitive, I think of close games between equally skilled teams that come down to one or two plays made by one team. Where even the losing team is like 'ah, they deserved to win'. Nothing about Destiny 2, or Destiny 1 for that matter, is competitive.

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      • Yeah the ranking system is frustrating. I've lost over 150 points the last two days because I keep playing on bad teams. Really is frustrating to spend all this time trying to get the claymore only to see my progress go backwards. Hurts even more when you lose and you do well but teammates cant hold there own. Would be nice to have a solid team to play competitive with so I can make some progress again but I cant seem to find a consistent team to play with and pull off some wins.

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      • Win streaks are free points for when you get lucky and win more than one in a row. Not sure how you can argue against that

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          Comp needs to have not only rewards but risk. Losing shouldn't be rewarded, nor should it be neutral, there needs to be point loss. Streak removal is fine if it's for both. Points for winning shouldn't be a whole lot more than for losing. 2 to 3 point differential. But above all else, these shitty players who can't play without cheating, or abandoning their team mates, or trying to manipulate match making, all need removed. The community should be able to hold feet to flame because that ruins the experience for everyone.

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          • Edited by robinsonc784070: 8/25/2018 7:30:14 AM
            I'm one person who doesn't want every match to be a sweaty try hard competition to bring out a w. Infact, I want the majority of my matches to be one sided weither we win or lose, but the mercy rule should mercy the match at 40-50 points difference ( for control) and about 30-40 points (for clash) to put people out of their misery. If you have to wait for a different match to be finished after losing a one sided match, inorder for a chance of a different outcome the next match you play, then so be it I'm fine with waiting, the system should just tell me when I have to wait and for what reason I'm waiting.

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            • I think they're removing them next season.

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            • You will never get this with the entirely horrible network system they use. No dedicated servers means impossible to create a fair sand box. This game is more about latency than skill.

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            • I understand your point of view, but i honestly think winstreaks are a good thing in Destiny 2, since everyone starts at 0. For an example, Overwatch has placements to get a good feel for how skilled the player is, so theres no need for streaks, since everyone gets put in a rank with a certain ammount of points. But this isn't the case in Destiny 2. Im not saying the Destiny 2 system is bad, but it requires streaks to work. Just think of how much people in Legend would have to play just to get to their rank. It's already a massive grind, and removing winstreaks would only make it worse. Loss streaks are simply jist created to counter/balance winstreaks because it would be too easy otherwise.

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              • Yeah started this week at 1225 glory. Played a total of 6 hours since reset. Got up to 1256 now I’m down to 1205. 😢

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              • I hate the fact that they added a losing streak! Its just a "EFF YOU" mechanic to players who lose.

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              • Don’t hurt yourself OP; you’re almost there!🤪

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