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7/12/2018 2:22:16 PM
17
Giant hole in some people's argument about Teamshooting and TTK
And that hole's name is Hypocrisy. Allow me to elaborate.
In a conversation in a [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/246906880?sort=0&page=0&path=1]TTK thread[/url] the other day the usual things came up:
Supposed benefits of lower TTK including better 1v2+ moments which led to a teamshooting conversation.
Firstly let me explain how lower TTK doesn't help 1v2+ engagements.
Although TTK can include abilities it is most widely associated with Weapon kill times.
Weapon TTK by itself mainly only means anything in a 1v1.
Making everything equal; Player (gun)skill, weapon damage, line of sight, etc...
A 1v2 with those parameters the "1" is [u]always[/u] going to lose in a straight out gunfight.
What gives the "1" a chance and creates those moments people want is [u]thumbskill[/u]. Movement, map awareness, abilities. TTK has nothing to do with those therefore has nothing to do with overcoming a 1v2+. People don't talk about Gunskill with these moments. They talk about everything they did to survive and take people out. Most times with a 1HK weapon.
Lowering TTK does not 'help' gunskill so much that it will change these engagements.
The exception is when the skill gap of the '1' and '2' is so wide that it's essentially a curb stomp.
Then in another part of the thread larger map design was brought up claiming it would [u]solve[/u] teamshooting.
So I made the statement: "[b]Larger maps will encourage flanking. Which is also teamshooting.
Is flanking somehow a more acceptable form of teamshooting?[/b]"
And the answer I got was: "[b]If the whole team flanks then no, but then they're still walking as a group rather than covering more ground so the end result will still be the same[/b]."
Me: " [b]That's kind of hypocritical though. Either it's teamshooting or it's not. How can their be OK ways and not OK ways[/b]."
Person: "[b]If one person flanks then it's not teamshooting. If the majority of the team is, then it's teamshooting[/b]."
Wait what? Sooo one kind of teamshooting is ok and another isn't? Riiiiight.
So I offered this:
"[b]Think of a giant V formation. 1 person at the point and 2 at the tips spread out. What's the difference when both of them shoot the 1 person together vs if they were closer together or clumped? The answer is nothing[/b]."
You can't conveniently define teamshooting as the [u]whole[/u] team and leave flanking alone.
People just want 1v2+ engagements to be easier NOT more viable. These moments can and do happen in D2 it's just harder. I imagine after September when shotguns are more available we'll see more 'moments'. But again TTK doesn't matter with a shotgun. However, if the TTK is lowered it will only hurt the shotgun rusher.
This brings to light the hypocrisy and selfishness of this whole debate IMO.
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2 RepliesEdited by kiLLaBiyte: 7/16/2018 9:27:09 PMNo gaping hole here. Just logic. Lower TTK means that the player with proper planning, weapon handling, and accuracy can sew lesser players into ribbon's. Why? Because accurate shots are REWARDED and encouraged. It should NOT take a Scout Rifle more than 3 Bullets to the head to secure a kill. Just like it shouldn't take an SMG more than 8-10 bullets to the cranium to sustain a kill within it's optimal range either. If TTK's were lowered, at least for Headshots, then a player who is fast, and has good accuracy, has the ability to take on 3 or more players at once for those incredible moments that we go to watch or be part of in pvp. Destiny, really doesn't have those moments. You're either happy to take one guy out before you die, or you simply die immediately to a team shot. [b]Basically, here's what I'm saying will absolutely FIX pvp in this game, and it would fix it overnight. It only requires 3 changes:[/b] [b]1.)[/b] Increase the Headshot modifier drastically. It should be balanced to greatly reward good accuracy. For example: A 180 or 200 RPM Scout Rifle should never be more than a 3 Tap TTK to the head. A 150 should be a consistent 2-Tap, etc. Start there. Work your way to the other weapons. [b]2.)[/b] Very slightly increase the Bodyshot TTK. But only very slightly. This is to bring the overall TTK to the body down a tiny bit, but still greatly reward "accuracy" over spray-n-pray. [b]EDIT:[/b] and come to think of it, you could leave body-shot TTK alone, and not touch it at all. This would make skill and accuracy an even greater reward. But I digress. [b]3.) [/b]Radar - No, not "No Radar" and not the kind of Radar we currently have in the Casual Playlist. I mean RADAR, like there is in just about every other shooter out there. In other words - You have a Radar that shows YOU and your TEAMMATES, but NOT the enemy, unless of course you have a special "perk" that allows temporary visual of enemy position (think the Drone kill-streak in MW2). Having No Radar is absolutely stupid for any shooter, but having a radar that highlights enemy positions is JUST as stupid. For some reason Bungie went from one extreme to the other with this. We need Radar, but we don't need enemy movement displayed on it. Make these 3 Changes, and PvP as we know it is fixed and balanced. Then, and only then, can the Dev's really start to balance the weapon and class system as a whole.
