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Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
Edited by Vampire Nox: 11/30/2017 4:51:45 PM
188

"Masterwork" Stats and not Perks is a Paper Tiger.

The problem with making a "crafting system" via Masterworks, that only allows you to affect the Weapons' Stats, and not the -PERKS- on the weapon is: Nowhere in that Blog Post did Bungie say or allude to a cap on the level scaling for the enemies you face. Regardless of what Planet/Moon/Centaur you're fighting on, the enemies directly and proportionately scale to your individual character level. Thus, it takes the same amount of time to kill any level-tier of enemy at Light 300 as it does at Light 100. If Bungie were to implement an upper-level-cap on how high the enemies scaled, then it might feel like your character is actually growing more powerful over the course of the game, and with the higher amount of time you spend in the game. If say... a Fallen Captain had a level scaling cap of say... 260; there would be challenge to defeating said Captain, all the way until you passed Light 260. Once you're past that point, enemy damage to your character becomes less, your damage to the enemy grows proportionately to the ever-widening gulf between your character light level, and the enemy that will never grow past Light 260. So you -FEEL- more powerful, and there will be a noticeable reduction in Time to Kill as your more powerful character has grown. So since Bungie failed to even mention placing a level cap on the enemies, it doesn't matter in the slightest how high you "Masterwork" any given weapon. The weapon power directly figures into the algorithm that decides your Light Level. The higher you "Masterwork" the weapon stats, the higher the power level of the weapon goes. The higher the power level of the weapon, the higher your Light Level averages. Then, the enemies you face directly scale to match your Light Level, thus keeping your Time to Kill exactly the same, as the game has now scaled damage and enemy health/defense in direct proportion to your higher Light Level due to the "Masterwork" higher stats of the weapon you've been slaving to upgrade. The "Masterwork" upgrades for Weapon Stats, and weapon stats only (we're all still stuck with Static Perks on all of our weapons, meaning that even after these updates, if you've received one Nameless Midnight, you've received every Nameless Midnight that it's possible to ever get...), is a [b]paper tiger[/b] update. The game itself, and the basic structure that Bungie built the mechanics around, cancels out any upgrades you will ever hope to apply to your weapons' base Stats. This new Blog Post was a whole lot of nothing. Nothing is going to improve in the game. They've used smoke and mirrors to make you -THINK- that they've added in weapon crafting, when the base mechanics of the game directly cancel out any upgrades that this crafting might apply to your weapons. The Blog Post and the coming updates are pure bullshit. Nothing will be changing beyond aesthetics, and the game will still play in the exact same boring manner that it does now. The game will still have the mind-numbing boring "Loot" that we've been suffering with since the game launched. Bungie outright lied, and used misdirection and false equivalencies yet again, in a feeble attempt to placate Player rage. But once you sit down, look at the planned updates, then actually apply the game mechanics to those updates, it's easily proven that these future "Updates" change nothing in the game. I for one, am not fooled; and I'd imagine that, if one were to sit down and take the time, this [b]Paper Tiger[/b] model of game management would be found to apply equally to every single aspect of Destiny 2. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TL;DR: You guys at Bungie aren't fixing anything. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that the whole "Blog Post" was nothing more than what you had planned for the game any way, but due to Player anger, pushed it up in the development schedule. That does not, however; change the fact that none of your "changes" are anything more than thinly veiled aesthetic changes that will not affect the game in any meaningful manner.

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  • I never comment, but I read all these blogs, comments, along w/ Bungie's endless BS smokescreen. I pur way way way to much time into Destiny. I agree w/ every word you said Vampire. There's no dofference in playing at level 200 than level 300. Bottom line is Bungie on a scale of 1 to 10 has created a game world w/ player satisfaction at about 3 while their profit margin is 10+. After all the complaints it's like they're laugh at us while slapping our face... meanwhile the bookkeepers give us the reach around and takes our wallet... I'll keep playing, but don't think for a second that everyone(myself included) isn't patiently waiting for that next big Skyrim quality game to come out so we can all say "Bungie Suck It"!

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  • In other words it’s still gonna take as long to kill Randall the Vandal?

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    • Edited by Malacite: 12/1/2017 3:05:21 AM
      So you're basically addressing an issue that myself and others have been upset about since Vanilla D1, that Power essentially means nothing and Destiny spits in the face of well (and rightly) established RPG conventions. It's stupid in the first place that our Guardians power is tied to our gear (rather than our own attunement to the Light, similar to how some Jedi are more in tune with The Force than others, such as Mace Windu or Annakin Skywalker). But that increasing it does nothing, only serves to break immersion in very unsettling ways. It has never stopped bothering me that a level 1 Dreg in Destiny, even at max Light in Year 3, was just as lethal as it was when I was a fledgling nor could I dispatch it any easier regardless of the method. Yeah, I really feel like a Legend Bungie. Took down various literal Gods but can still die to a stupid Dreg. OK Then. Some games actually have mechanics where enemies will flee when they see you (or at least leave you the hell alone) because they know what's up.

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      • I could of told you from Beta, that D2 was a stripped down narrow version purposely done so Bungie could sell us content over the next 3 years. But, if you look at the blog there is an underlining of hope that they are finally listening to us and making changes for the community and not for Activision's bottom line. You made a nice long thoughtful post, but I'm sure you'll be grinding asap when the new expansion drops. If you had any sense, you'd walk away... but Bungie knows they already got you.

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        • You are a very intelligent Guardian and this is a very intelligent post and most of the people are not going to understand that. The most Salient point which is your main point, is that everything feels the same in combat no matter where you are in the game ... So weather doing the campaign missions, a strike or Patrols it all feels the same. This is what happens when people become enslaved to the idea that time to kill is the most important factor in a shooter. Instead of for example the feeling of progression. One of my favorite things from Destiny 1 is getting strong enough to go back and laboriously fight those hidden ??? Mark Having ass holes in the cosmodrome. Remember how we would fight them and no matter you hit them with a super or rocket launchers they took no f****** damage and killed you with one shot. Then you got stronger he hit Level 7 or 8 and you saw that these things were level 15 or 16 or 18 whatever it was and they could still kill you in one or two shots but you were doing damage now at as long as you could do some damage you knew you could kill it it hide and seek you're trying time you're super use up all your heavy in machine guns and rockets... But then you killed the stupid thing and yeah the reward was cheesy in terms of in Game Reward but in terms of fun and challenge it was badass. I like your suggestion that if I'm power 300 facing a captain that's 260 I should kill him faster than if I was power level 200 facing that same a captain. These are pretty basic rules and they were in effect at various points in destiny1. I don't know why people don't like this and by people I clearly mean Luke f****** Smith and Co.

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          • Edited by madmax0707: 12/1/2017 10:01:31 PM
            Basically they addressed nada, bung is really good with inferring something you want to hear but when you actually read it You realize it’s a pile of d(b)ung

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          • Yes it's a classic smoke and mirrors trick. The ' new and improved' weapons system will yet again give you 'numbers to chase' in the hamster wheel of destiny....all without doing a single meaningful thing to your 'power' output. Why do I think this way? Logic wins here. They will never allow a true advantage because of their over precious idiotic ideals of 'balance'. Every 'masterwork' perk will be neutered and diluted to the point where all you see are 0.04 increases and as you try to convince yourself it makes a difference....you will hear the cries ' nerf nerf nerf' even though there is NOTHING to nerf...

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            • Edited by DaCannonnn: 12/1/2017 3:38:54 PM
              Been saying this since D1. A level 5 dredg shouldn't do as much damage to me when I max light as when I first started playing. Basically how in D1 when an enemy was too high level and had a question mark over its head and took no damage, that's what WE should be to low level characters. Otherwise there's literally no reason to level up other to get pass barriers they make to equip certain weapons.

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            • The pic of Uriels Gift in the blog shows a 10 point boost to [i][b]Reload Speed [/b][/i]- not Power/Light level. There is no mention of Masterworks raising your light/power level. The enemies scale based on the number on your screen - 305, 268, 294, etc - not the stats on your weapon.

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              • A well written post.

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              • But how do you feel about fusion rifles?

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                • I don't think anyone is debating power level scaling, or at least it's not a criticism that should be directed solely at the masterworks system. That said, how is masterworks not a step in the right direction? I'm all for modding weapons to try out different combos. And although it sounds focused on weapon stats (stability, reload, etc.), the mention of options like 'generating orbs on kills' definitely indicates at least some variety of perks will be included in the system as well. This is a huge step in the right direction. Now, if they implement activity specific weapon/gear mods that have a chance to drop, suddenly we have more reason to do a prestige raid or nightfall, or *gasp* strikes.

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                  • Edited by monkeydancer: 12/3/2017 12:17:21 AM
                    Got to say I’m not impressed with the up and coming changes it just sounds very thin to me. More tokens - yay more of the things I want taken out of the game. Faction rally collect tokens, do strikes and collect tokens, do the raid and collect tokens, do crucible and collect tokens, EDZ,Nessus,Io,Titan all just collect tokens. “Let’s add something new” “I know let’s make them do the same events they already do over and over again everyday to collect more tokens, they will love that” Heroic strikes - considering I don’t do normal strikes anymore as they are not as good or fun as d1’s strikes and nothing to hunt for doing a harder version doesn’t appeal to me. They should have 6 or 7 strikes then 5 or 6 heroic strikes that are completely different to the normal ones then 4 different harder and longer strikes for nightfall’s (that are only nightfall’s not strikes) changes at reset so only see same 1 once a month. Could have added a mini raid like a 4 or 5 man smaller raid for when you just can’t find that last 1 or 2 people. Xur fate engrams - gets rid of the rng monster but still could have done more with this like xur selling his own gear his own armour set and weapons from other worlds you know some decent space/ alien guns. 3oC isn’t needed in this game considering how easy it is to get exotics and his new engrams why would you need 3oC? More added to leviathan - I know I’m not alone when I say this, I don’t find this raid fun it really is boring as -blam!-. I know I know it’s not out yet don’t judge it but hey it’s a leviathan add on so it’s just going to be the same. Ornaments - this is a great idea well done bungie oh wait this was in d1 and taken out. Masterwork weapons - now this is a good idea but done wrong, in other games where masterwork or mastercraft weapons are involved they are usually more powerful better versions or/and give additional perks but a + reload or + stability just doesn’t impress me at all and just another way of trying to keep any gun from becoming more powerful then any other. I understand balance in pvp but in Pve we shouldn’t be balanced. if I see someone in the social space fully kitted out in exotics it makes me want to play more as I want to be that good or my character to look that cool. Same as if I’m struggling on a mission (never happen in destiny it’s too easy) I’d love to ask a higher level to come in and just destroy everything with a click of their fingers but with this balance crap it’ll never happen. I want to feel powerful and like a legend but everyone is the same and weak. I can’t see any of this making the end game any better, I’m not a collector and at the moment there is only 4 or 5 kinetics I like to use, the same in elementals and not even a handful of powerful weapons so wont take long to get masterwork versions and can’t think of any exotics except 2 or 3 that I’ve enjoyed using and not a single exotic armour piece (perks are mostly melee based poop), ornaments will probably be those bright 80’s looking spikes and shit sticking out again (eek), heroic strikes will be the same just with more yellow bars, once the excitement of seeing Osiris and somewhere new has gone (1 -3 weeks) then that’s it all done again. I’ve read so many posts about the end game and many many really good ideas on this forum but bungie just don’t seem to want to give any of them a chance.

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                  • I actually like wasting all that time leveling up just to feel like a low level scrub. - said no player ever

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                    • Ummmm wow. Bravo sir. Took the words right out of my mouth. Pubg and fortnite will keep me busy for a LONG time. Goodbye bungo

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                    • masterwork is just another silly stats mod. +10 draw. +10 reload. +10 ammo. LOL destiny sucks.

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                      • Moral of the story is that D2 needs random rolls back on all guns. This adds an extra incentive to play the game, play all game modes and adds replayability which isn’t there at the moment.

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                        • Meh I like what I read about the upcoming changes, seems as per usual, no matter what the game developers do, it's never enough for the millenials. MOREEEEEEEEE! I WANT MORRRRRRREEEEEEE!!! UUUUAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! *throws a tantrum*

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                          • Edited by TheShadow-cali: 12/2/2017 6:08:28 AM
                            [quote]You guys at Bungie aren't fixing anything. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that the whole "Blog Post" was nothing more than what you had planned for the game any way, but due to Player anger, pushed it up in the development schedule. That does not, however; change the fact that none of your "changes" are anything more than thinly veiled aesthetic changes that will not affect the game in any meaningful manner.[/quote] Bungie is so full of it and there is no arguing that. They can't even stop lying about the XP that i'm wondering what other BS they are going to pull. The over all is, they don't have nothing to offer this game anymore and they are not "fixing" anything. Edit: This illusion that gamer's have that D2 is going to get better by having that incentive that D1 actually had is foolish for anyone to think so. Bungie is lost when it comes to this entire game and has no freaking clue what it actually means to communicate with their player base, that this isn't even a joke anymore. It's gotten to the point that It's pathetic with them coming out with lines like... "We heard you wanted a fire team to run lost sectors" [quote]We’ve also been reading some tough criticism about our lack of communication, and we agree we need to be more open.[/quote] This line that was just used in their pod cast has been used for 3 freaking years and nothing has changed at All. Nothing, and that is a fact. Bungie, you don't even know what the word "being more open" actually means when you hide like a child from your player base and you been doing it for 3+ years. That line "we need to be more open" is one of the dumbest things I have read so far since D2 has been released, but your actions like always, show different. Go get some professional help Bungie to be taught what (communication) actually is. My 9 year old even knows what that means and knows how to express himself well when it comes to a two-way conversation. He put's you to shame and you guys call yourselves "adults" is laughable... Get use to these words Bungie... [b]Actions speaks louder then your worthless words at this point especially when you keep lying about the XP....[/b]

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                            • We don’t even know how it’ll work yet with 100% certainty. Hold off on flipping out and calling them liars until we do. The enemy damage and our damage scales with light level yes, but it’s possible they let the masterwork stats boost just our outgoing weapon damage for the individual weapons equipped depending on the stats....

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                              • Rawr

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                              • Cant wait to slap that extra range on my Uriels bois

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                              • I love how you bolded paper tiger like it was you who came up with it. So witty my dude. Don't forget your mla citations for Datto.

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                              • Edited by Eqitx: 12/2/2017 8:25:11 AM
                                Do you know at least the meaning of paper tiger or you just found it randomly near the title of a youtuber review, tell me

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                                • Very good post, however the stats like reload, stability, and range (which i think are gonna be the best masterworks) dont care about enemy level and if the numbers are high enough will be noticeable.

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                                • Kind of confused as to what these two have to do with each other. Masterworks is just a re-roll stat bonus, right?

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