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Edited by Jinn:
11/18/2017 1:33:33 PM
241
People don't get what it takes to create new stuff (Development)
Hi dear community,
I roughly think that the most of the people that "hate" out there, without any single constructive feedback, about the DLC (or the raid lairs) know what it actually takes to develop such a big ass raid.
Like have you done well coded programming before? Modelling? Animating? Sound effects? Mapping?
I'm not trying to defend this game, it's more that I wanna say that you should think about the people behind the game, in the studios. They're just normal people like you and me and they use their time to develop you guys something to play, have fun and enjoy. And after that they get hated to death with nonsense hating? How would you feel as a developer? And obviously it's gonna cost you something, would you code hundreds of hours, if not even thousands of hours for free?
As a developer myself, I can tell you, it's not easy, it takes a damn lot of time and effort. And after that we'd love a "thank you" instead of a "f**k you".
Not saying you should love the game completely after this, but understand the work that has been put in.
[b]This had to be said:[/b] At least some respect to the developers, designers & co. would be appreciated, instead of all the braindead-hating. Everyone has their opinion, but think about it, before shouting it.
[i]Thank you for your time
Lots of love for the community & the workers
Don Diablo[/i]
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[quote]They're just normal people like you and me and they use their time to develop you guys something to play, have fun and enjoy.][/quote] Oh, forgive me for thinking they all were getting paid for their time. I had no idea they were just using their free time and doing this as a hobby and not a job......
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3 RepliesI was a research specialist coding for robotics and optics systems including collision coding, 3-D rendering, etc. I worked for a large government organization which I cannot disclose due to the exremely long and strict NDA I had to sign. Don Diablo, what I can say is this: 1. It is true that Dev is difficult in any industry. 2. Coding is not easy, but easy enough if one has the right tooling and schooling with project experience to round out that knowledge base. 3. Money backs everything, so in America today as one posted commented below...the thanks is the salary direct deposit that each Bungie employee earns paid by the consumers of this game. Money talks in America now...its not about ones feelings. Americans barely know who are their neighbors. My Point is: Business lesson (and I hate businesses all together): 1. Guaranteed Activision + Bungie performed a base NPV (Net Present Value) Analysis to see if the game can be viable financially based on probably: # of pre-orders, # of purchases day of launch, #late adopter purchases, # of DLC + Expansion purchases...and those numbers will be based on the Destiny 1 sales deducting development and operating costs over time. If the NPV result is 0 or above, then on paper it warrants further analysis. Then they probably performed a proforma P&L and Cost sheet analysis...blah blah blah (I have advanced degrees and over a decade of work experience doing analysis as well). 2. They make enough of a game within that slated budget, which can change over time. 3. They run constant and consistent financial analyses as numbers change over time of dev. 4. They are under contract and multiple agreements with Activision and Sony, and probably many other companies and independents using third-party tools and tech (codes, engines, libraries, etc.), so there is a lot at play. BUT at the end, the result has to satisfy the consumers...so Bungie and Activision (the main players) have to decide, who do they want to cater to? Bungievision decided to cater to as many of the consumers as possible BECAUSE they were not confident in their own product during development. So sell as many copies as possible first by gettin the marketing/advertising engine running at 10,000 rpm, and take a "we'll fix it later" attitude, whilst ignoring the true fanbase. The fanbase, whether they are perverse, harsh in criticism, deserve every right to open their pieholes. Why? Because Bungie decided to produce a product to succeed the previous Destiny 1 and had all the knowledge there to build a great product, Activision decided to publish said product, all for money, so since this is all for money now (not artistic endeavors) a "thank you" to Bungie and Activision is neither warranted nor deserved. If I help an old lady cross the street, and she thanks me for my help and time, that is deserved. Bungie and Activision and all companies are here now because of profit. They don't need nor deserve a thank you from anyone. If Bungie was a coding artist as they tried to be till Halo 3, then they would get more respect. Everyone is whore and slave for money, the real grind.
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Edited by mja calg: 11/17/2017 1:37:45 AMThere is ZERO excuse for minor fixes that make the game less abrasive. For example here's 2 things. 1) No Mass Dissemble for items like Shaders like we had in D1. Really?? I've been a developer 30+ years, this is at most an hour of time to design, test and the have multiple co-workers check it for flaws. 2) Allowing us to see what the Challenges are BEFORE we start an activity, like Strikes, NightFalls, Crucible etc. This doesn't even necessarily require Game changes and Certification by MS/Sony, they could simply add a page to their WebSite / app etc. with "Challenges of the day, Challenges of the Week" etc. And here we are almost 4 months later and none of these are addressed. That shows they are either incompetent or even worse, could care less about the people that pay for their games. Until I see fixes for these simple Quality of Game issues, they get no more money from me.
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Had plenty of time, and feed back for 3 years. So no, not one little bit of praise to these mfkrs. If they released the FULL game it'd be good, but they are so clearly milking the tit. It's so frustrating, because I love the idea of this game, and many other do too. Sadly it's looking rather bleak.
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Didn't they have 3 years for this?
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Kinda looks like all the "developers" responding to your post don't really agree with you. Point is, in today's society, with all the various ways social features are integrated into commerce. If you do a bad job with a product, people are going to let you know how exactly they feel. To quote Adam Orth, "they'll just have to deal with it". I don't agree with it, but that is how society has evolved. You as a developer have the choice to work for these companies or not. But don't cry when things escalate, and don't defend what you know is wrong. The fans shouldn't have to tell you people how to do your job, excuse me, leave positive feedback.
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and clearly, neither does bungie
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Developers also stay in tune with their customers and incorporate successful aspects of their previous product into a new product. Many of the y3 refinements to d2 were ignored. The result is a bland endgame with very little reward after a certain point. With nothing to look forward to the player base gets bored. Reforging is a great example. Custom PvP matches. Smart loot. In activity raid rewards. IB loot after matches....
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1 ReplyDevelop yes I understand that but cmon selling us back stuff we already had and should've been a baseline coming into this game? No sir. I'll take my money to Hookers and blow.
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Some 12 year old kid claiming he's a developer himself, -blam!-ing adorable.
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I can agree devs don’t have it easy but they get paid.... I can appreciate the hard work they put in... not a fan of the decisions being made tho. I would be more than happy to wait for the game to fully develop and pay 100 then to pay 60 for chopped up game that feels hallow and reskinned while waiting for them to slowly add content and fix all the issues
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1 ReplyOther games manage it fine. This company is a joke
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The majority of criticism here is a far cry from braindead hatred, game developement ins't THAT hard, and it especially shouldn't be for the the studio that fathered halo back in the day, they're being funded by activision for christ's sake and they're doing an extremely bad job at communicating with their fanbse. It's honestly kind of impressive how civil most of the criticism has been so far.
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I wouldn’t care much about everything that I do right now with this game except it is a continuation (dlc) of D1. No new guardians, no new enemies, no new weapons (just names). I was hoping for a whole new game for how much they spent to create this. I’ve done 3D modeling and python coding before and know how hard it is to create everything new but come on man. Most of this is copy and paste.
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Edited by RAIST5150: 11/16/2017 11:49:53 PMNormally, on the surface, I would agree whole-heartedly with you... but Bungie is a bit of an exception... just a bit... You can only abuse your supporters so much before one of them serves up the pimp hand. This isn't JUST one game fueling the fervor.... going on roughly 4 years of neglect for some. So... yeah. There is a lot of pent up anger... and a lot of it is VERY justified from their perspective. I don't have a dog in a lot of the fights, as I only came on board a while after TTK launched---but I experienced enough and communicated with older players enough to understand what a lot of the graffiti on the walls was about. At the very least, they dropped the ball this time around... for some to talk about screwing the proverbial pooch may not be too far off base though. It all depends on one's history with the company and the franchise when considering their perspective. Some of these guys reach back to the Halo days even, so they may have some SERIOUS axes to grind.
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How about they use the mechanics in this new raid lair for a vex raid? They have the enemies and it wont take that long to slightly modify the current enemies But the problem is the stupid changes no one asked for. The quest system was fine but they had to change it which was a waste of development time and the same for challenges. No one wanted the gun system to change and that was a waste of development time. No one wanted a token system and that was a waste of development time. People expected the grind to be similar and they wasted development time changing how that works Then they cut corners by adding a timer on the nightfall instead of actually making it a nightfall. Then they cut heroic strikes from launch which should have been in the base game See where Im going?
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8 RepliesIt's like any product, if you're unhappy with it, then you can call out the person or people that provided the product and ask for a refund or partial refund or at least expect it to be fixed. Why should anyone be thanked for not meeting expectations?
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They've been developing this game since destiny 1 was released I don't want to hear it. I'm also starting to suspect that even this DLC was cut from destiny 1. For a game series that has sold as much as this has, there is no reason a company with these resources cannot hire enough manpower to have a raid in every DLC.
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What's with all the corporate apologists? Do you realize that Bungie is a company that is trying to make money? If people don't like the product they're selling why are you trying to convince them otherwise? Do you work for them? Yes it's sad that people that work for Bungie and take pride in what they do might be bummed with the reception but it's not their fault and they still got paid. So what's the problem again?
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Edited by ashmansmithbob: 11/16/2017 10:37:56 PMIf you want us to thank the developer's okay. Thank you bungie for wasting your time making this half arsed game
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3 RepliesI've seen more progress and more passion from skeleton crew indie teams with no budget. Your point is moot imo
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How hard they all worked means nill. They got pay checks that is their thanks. It doesn’t not change my perspective that the game is lacking. And it is managements fault with the direction they took the game.
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In any industry where you provide a product in exchange for money, receiving backlash if your product is deemed disappointing by the customer is to be expected. Consumers have no obligation to coddle them, or help make their job easier. The only consolation they should expect for performing their job, whether they're being praised or criticized is a paycheck. If they don't feel like the paycheck they receive justifies the positives and negatives of the job, they should seek employment with another developer, or another profession altogether.
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3 RepliesEdited by PUAthelas: 11/17/2017 1:01:59 AMExplain to me how warframe keeps adding more and more content when Bungie is just sitting on their ass.Pls I need to know. Isn't warframe packed with content that also takes time to make? So how a free 2 play game makes more changes to their game than a vastly bigger studio backed by one of the biggest publishers in the industry??? Oh and btw if they can't make so many changes please don't advertise the game as an MMO that will be updated over 10 years.
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It is their job dude they are not doing it for free so we can "thank" them.. They are not our mothers cooking us a meal after a hard day's work for us to enjoy ffs.. They are professionals who are getting paid with good salaries for this so it is up to them to be good at what they do and if they are not the product that they sell will not bring the money back.. I mean i get that what they do is hard but that is no reason to "thank" them.. They are not risking their lives or something ffs
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The salt is real. Someone makes a logical post telling people to not persecute the devs so harshly, gets downvoted. Someone makes a post about how this game is a piece of trash (at this point why would anyone who seriously thinks that bother to hang around these forums, seriously, go, get out of here, and take your salt with you) and it gets hundreds of upvotes. Behavior like this is why bungie doesn’t take their own forums seriously anymore.
