JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
Edited by BrandonDotCom: 10/30/2017 1:04:27 PM
6

Random Weapon Rolls PVP Discussion

I know I've been deeply critical these passed few days, but I hope this post can trigger some cronstructive discussions. Random weapon rolls have been a controvercial issue for a while now and I just wanted share some thoughts. Before we get started I ask that you read the entire post if possible. Today we'll be covering several topics, it might get lengthy, but hopefully we can have an interesting discussion! Let's start with the current fixed roll system and It's percieved strengths. Fixed rolls provide a finite time investment. Fixed rolls allows the player to acquire every weapon in a realistic period of time. Fixed rolls also increases the level of balance between each weapon. Many players want fixed rolls because they want the outcome of gunfights to be based entirely on skill. Another reason guardians liked the change is because they don't like 'God Rolls' and don't wish to be compelled to grind just to feel competitive. Some guardians simply don't like grinding for weapons. Some would go as far as argue that random rolls don't respect your time and they offer an "imaginary depth". Lastly fixed weapon rolls removes the possibility of recieving a usesless weapon due to a bad roll. If you haven't guessed it already, I'm against the current fixed roll system. I can aknowledge some of the potential benefits of the current system but I believe the costs outway the benefits. Hold up! Hear me out my fixed roll bretheren, we're all friends here. Random rolls provided a long term potential incentive for the player. Sure random rolls may seem like they demand more from the player, but the grind is entirely optional. It was never a requirement to own a 'God Roll' in order to be competitive. Granted a God Roll doesn't hurt, but individual skill will always trump perks. Let's Do a quick Q&A! Q: "I don't like losing gunfights to someone with better perks." A: First, that isn't a question. Second the answer is to grind for a weapon with better perks. Q:"Why should I have to grind for a weapon in order to have a fair gunfight?" A: There is no such thing as a 'fair gunfight'. Every firefight has some element of randomness, especially in game's with loot. Q: "What about God Rolls? What about felwinter's lie?" A: There is NO problem with God Rolls. If you want a God Roll you can grind for it. It's optional content. Losing a gunfight because your opponent has a better roll, is the same as losing to a player with better skills. Q: "How do random rolls and player skill have anything to do with one another?" A: Simple. If you lose a gunfight because of a God Roll, the solution is to invest time grinding for a God Roll. If you lose a gunfight due to lack of skill the solution is to practice more. Both problems require the same solution--an indefinite amount of time investment. Q: "Doesn't randon rolls undermine player skill?" A: Not necessarily, player skill will always be the most important factor that determines outcome. It is much easier to obtain a God Roll than it is to be the number 1 ranked crucible player. Therefore it's always more likely to be outgunned by your opponent's skill than perks. Q: "What about weapon balance? Don't weapon rolls make the game less balanced?" A: Yes they do, but that's ok. We have to keep in mind that Destiny is about collecting loot, and that creates an intrinsic imbalance. Destiny never was nor does it need to be balanced. Destiny was never designed to be a competitive e-sport and that's ok. There are plenty of non loot-based shooters on the market that have the level of balance needed to be an e-sport. Moreover even though Destiny 2 is more balanced than the original--there will always be a meta. Certain weapons will always be used over others regardless if there are random rolls and regardless if the game is more/less balanced. Q: "How come Destiny won't be an e-sport even with fixed rolls?" A: Even with fixed rolls, a loot based game like Destiny will be more imbalanced than a conventional competitive shooter. Secondly Bungie has no clear intention of making Destiny 2 an e-sport. Many influencial community members have been requesting features like in-game ranking and leaderboards since Destiny 1 vanilla, and they've gone mostly unanswered. Bungie's current design philosphy doesn't involve e-sports. Q: "What about all the bad weapon perks? I hate earning guns with unusable rolls." A: Simply remove them. Only keep good perks or better in the loot pool. I think it's better to potentially earn a weapon with bad perks vs earning the exact same weapon over and over again. Just look at most of the perks on the weapons in Destiny 2. Most of the legendary guns in D2 are just an average to below avarage roll in D1. If you were to take any random weapon in D2 and reroll the perks odds are it would be an improvement. A weapon shouldn't be top teir just because it has explosive rounds. This concludes our Q&A and PvP portion. Stay tuned for part 2, where I'll discuss random rolls in PvE. Thanks for reading and let me know what you think!

Posting in language:

 

Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Agreed.. D1 was a game that I wanted to play because I thoroughly enjoyed the diversity in each gun and armor piece.. god rolls to me were different than god rolls to other people because I enjoyed different scopes and perks.. I remember getting a gun a time or 2 that according to all my friends were the end all be all God Roll of that weapon.. I didn't like it.. preferred the way it acted with a different set of perks because it fit my play style much better and I saw more success with it.. for example.. on sniper rifle.. everyone was chasing Hidden hand and Head Seeker or last round.. I found these pointless because A... if it was the last round in the magazine I didn't do my job with the first 3 rounds.. and B.. Aim Assist was always something that aggravated me more than it improved my gun experience.. I want to hit the shot because I personally aimed correctly.. not because some algorithm stated I was within 5 meters of my target so it's going to give it to me.. I instead rolled with a 1000 yard stare with FireFly... because it was like a celebration everytime I landed a headshot and when running against some teams when the guy standing next to them's head explodes before their very eyes it demoralized them in a way.. or atleast I felt like it did... made a point atleast.. the combination of perks I felt.. made them say "Ok.. this guy actually has some talent" And it wasn't like D1 was unplayable for the casuals... I knew plenty of guys that got on and played for 3-5 hours a week and could completely destroy enemies in the crucible just as well as I could even though I pumped 3-5 hours a night.. what the changes they've made have done however was alienate the people who forced their friends to buy the game because it's the only game we talked about.. when we left the game to play another game it was normally for the duration of a week or 2 just because something else came out that we wanted to play and then we were back... in D2... we got tired of the game in week 1.... and nomatter how short the grind period is of 3-5 hours a week.. we don't want to so we just left completely.. in D1.. I had all 3 characters leveled to within a few light levels of max.. within the week I would have tried for(if not succeeded) for flawless in trials every week... ran Nightfall... did a Raid run... if Iron Banner was out.. Ran it till we got Rank 5 on all 3 characters.. spent probably atleast 30 seconds to a minute anytime a new piece of Armor or New Weapon would drop because we needed to look at the perks and see how that would effect how it operated.. whether it was a PVP gun or a PVE gun... kick the big ball off the Tower a few times.. try to push our friends off cliffs while laughing our asses off.. continually punch our AFK friend that went to the bathroom during the raid so that we could vibrate his controller off his table.. ram each other with sparrows.. blow up each other's sparrows... make videos for Youtube showing the fun we would have or that "I just wiped the whole team in PVP this is the most amazing thing I've ever done" in PVP if you spawned into a bad team you weren't Doomed right out of the gate.. a good player could always turn things around with crafty play.. in D2... we played for a week... and then we said... "Maybe Anthem will be as good as they claim it will be" or... "If they would put D1 back to the way it was in Year 2 PVP we could go have fun there." their "Improvements" have yes.. instead of playing D2 have made us wanna go back and play D1 instead... Osiris comes out next month... 90% of my clan isn't even excited because if they are just going to put more stuff on the base they have now then what's the point... those of us that sprung for the Deluxe Collectors edition are saying more than likely once the 2 DLCs that we've already payed for drop.. we are probably done with Destiny altogether... which sucks for some of us.. because I loved D1 so much that I preordered D2 on PS4 AND PC.. when the PC version dropped I loaded in...got my character to level 2 and then said "yeah... it's the same as PS4 but prettier.. I'm not playing this again"

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Interesting points for either side, but this still leaves static-perks as the preferable alternative as you brought up in the short paragraph. Respectful of the players time, a healthier grind, a greater capacity for balance. All good things.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • keep static gun rolls, mods will be what will be useful in the future, my guess is new mods will be added which act similar to gun rolls

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    23 Replies
    • The D2 newbs are never gonna roll with this. It's like the freedom loadout for D1 vets...most hate it.

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • In D1, whenever I would get a weapon from PvP I would immediately check its stats and perks. Now whenever I get a Better Devils I just dismantle it immediately

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      1 Reply
      • Are you asking and answering questions yourself?

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        4 Replies
        You are not allowed to view this content.
        ;
        preload icon
        preload icon
        preload icon