You are right on most points..We Just have to wait and see.Day one buy it is if the full Game is like the beta i will bring back the Game to Game stop and refund or swap it for a other Game

I think he was talking about the people who say that D2 is the absolute worst and they will never ever play the game when it comes out, despite it being a BETA using the same system as the one used at E3. TL;DR- he means the people who are jumping to conclusion way too early based on a beta

I want to believe that. But they've got just about 7 weeks. I'll just assume you've played this game as long as I have and have been at the mercy of Bungie's lack of communication over important things. I believe the ability cooldowns can easily be dealt with, we know they're using the same engine as D1 so if daybreak and mayhem have taught us anything, changing cooldowns is not too difficult. But, the gun system; the current setup seems pretty integral to D2's build. I think it's atrocious. I've run the strike several times now and I really hate that I can't equip a sniper and a rocket at the same time. To be clear, I've completed the strike every time, I never thought it was overly hard, but peppering away at bullet sponges and the boss with basically only ever primaries was mediocre at best. I am definitely nervous the gun system in the full game is going to be very close to what it is now. I hope you're right though and that positive and [b]fun[/b] driven changes are in the works. Here's hoping.

They said recently that most of the problems that people have been saying are being fixed and that they already knew about them. You see, the Beta is the exact same as the test game at E3. During that time, Bungie had been testing the game and have said they found most of the problems that we found out, but never changed anything because they wanted us to see the same thing. Basically: - PvE enemies will take more damage from our weapons - ammo will drop more frequently for PvE - ability charge rate will be increased slightly - hit registration and connections will be improved upon. Don't worry about it. You and I know that Bungie have screwed up in the past but we need to remember that this is only a test of a new start for the franchise. Just have a little faith

I hope you're right! It's difficult to trust Bungie but I do believe D1 ended on mostly a good note. PVE is definitely fun right now in D1. Any word on the gun system?

Voice your concern that's fine. But don't present in such a way that ridicules anyone who disagrees with what you suggest, or even just stating "the beta is shit so will the full game". If you cannot comprehend the difference between a test build and a full game, I beg you to keep your "concerns" to yourself. I can bet you Bungie wants this game to be highly successful, and this beta is the only chance for us as a community to show that we care about it, and would like to be involved in shaping the end result of the game. If you claim to "care about Destiny" leave some proper feedback, detailed feedback, not just pulling the piss out of the devs or the company.

Is this the royal "you"? Or are you referring to my post? I guess I can reply with the royal "you" as well. If you cannot comprehend that giving us a bad taste of a game is a bad way to advertise the game then maybe you don't understand logic. Also, I listed my "concerns" in detail. Don't feel the need to be so defensive, we're on the same side. I expressed clearly that I want this game to be good. But I'm nervous as I see a vision of the money side of things becoming unbalanced with the player satisfactory rate side of things. I believe Bungie could make more profits while combining that with a greater enjoyment of the game for the playerbase. It really should be about the [b]fun[/b] factor. It's the beta, now is certainly the time to "express my concerns"

[quote]If you cannot comprehend that giving us a bad taste of a game is a bad way to advertise the game then maybe you don't understand logic.[/quote] Directly from TWAB: "The nature of a Beta of this scale requires that it’s based off a build of the game that is now months old. So, in many cases, your feedback is helping us validate changes that were previously made based on internal feedback and playtesting." "This new technology needs a lot of testing. This testing ultimately helps us validate that our new server model is working as we thought it would, and at the quality and scale we had hoped. It helps us evaluate our new tech advancements, including enhancements you’ll understand more fully when you play the full game. Ultimately, it paves the way for us to have a much smoother launch." If you lack basic comprehension, Bungie are telling us they are using us as test subjects for a better game. If the beta is terrible, well they know that, that's why they are giving us a chance to participate in a beta....to make changes. That's why I made that reply, it was in general translating what they have been telling us, to give them feedback. [spoiler]Funny how you speak about logic, yet you fail greatly.[/spoiler] [quote]I believe Bungie could make more profits while combining that with a greater enjoyment of the game for the playerbase.[/quote] Trust me, they have financial managers. They know how to make money. And they would've thought of that way before you did. You listed your concerns? Great, good job! That's a great start. [quote]It really should be about the fun factor. It's the beta, now is certainly the time to "express my concerns"[/quote] You don't say.

Man you are struggling with what I'm saying. No worries, I'll spell it out. Nice and slow. Beta no fun, so I say, "beta no fun". You say, "wah, he said Beta was no fun, I'm whining" You see, not helpful. Do you want me to just say, the beta is great? My original reply was to the unsound advice of OP saying if you don't like, don't play it. And yes, regardless of the intentions of TWAB, the beta is a first impression for people, I'm surprised you don't understand this. This is a long time favorite game of mine, I can understand why you're triggered when someone attacks it, but it needs criticism.

No...remember when I mentioned you lack basic comprehension? [quote]Bungie are telling us they are using us as test subjects for a better game. If the beta is terrible, well they know that, that's why they are giving us a chance to participate in a beta....to make changes.[/quote] [i]in[/i] pretty surprised, that you didn't understand that. Never did I meant you are whining, I just said 'you don't like it? Awesome, give some good feedback so they could fix certain aspects.' Hence why I used the TWAB as evidence to that. But since you want to brush that point off and state "regardless of the intentions of TWAB". That's something I can't help with. But if you are trying to speak from the perspective of someone who is new to this franchise, that wouldn't work either as this entire experience is new to them. They wouldn't properly know as much as we the Destiny veterans do, and what to expect. Hence why I was speaking from the point of the "veterans", since they know that Bungie releases statements through TWAB, and actually know that this a test build, for testing purposes, so they could regain feedback whether it's negative or positive. TL;DR But to someone outside? "Oh it's a beta let me try this game out." But to the majority of us? "Oh Bungie has given us a chance to test the game so they could regain our feedback whether it's good or bad, since we have played their first game." Get it?

I definitely get it, thanks again. I know the back and forth is based on shots fired but I just find it hard to believe that between now and full beta that my originally expressed concerns are going to be addressed. Never did I [i]meant[/i] that ;) So, pitch forks laid down... I seriously am concerned about the gun system. It feels like a wraparound way to remove our efficiency in the game. Bungie has shown their cards on that one since I first started playing back in beta for D1. I know you've played through those changes as well, I forgot the exact patch (5.2.2 I think?) when they got rid of special and heavy ammo, still hurts. I think that vision is carrying over to D2. And I really do understand that the test build is to work out kinks but I don't think it's to change macro things like the gun system and it's still a valid point that people play the free open beta to get a feel for the game and veteran or not, it doesn't feel fun right now to me due to large issues not small changes between now and mid September.

Well this beta is an E3 build. Since then they have done changes involving initial feedback from people who attended E3 and the Gameplay premier. But we haven't seen those changes. The new weapon system? I am not that too happy for it, since I am used to be my usual, scout-sniper-RL loadout. However it's a fresh change, something new to experience, and I am guessing they will not change that either. So I will adapt to it and move on.

Solid advice. I think we won't see a big change on that, I hate to think that adapting means to enjoy the game less. Hopefully not.

Yup, remember playing Destiny for the first time, everything seemed weird. Weapons and loadouts, but you got used to it.

Definitely, my adaptation then was more based on a lot of options when now it feels like that customization is limited. Your advice to adapt is exactly my intention, but I'm just trying to use my imagination for a few months down the road, the raid is out, we've gotten better primaries and power weapons, better armor etc. And when I'm sitting in orbit excited to try out my earned gear, I'm gonna have to pick a sniper or a rocket for a single encounter at a time, or I can hide and constantly switch between the two and cross my fingers that I'll find power ammo. Just trying to understand the reason why Bungie thinks this is better than the current system just confuses me. If it's not broke right? Change for the sake of change feels arbitrary. But, a legit chance first! Cheers for your enjoyment of D2, I hope it's fun for you too. No sarcasm.